- From: Ralph R. Swick <swick@w3.org>
- Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2008 12:23:13 -0500
- To: public-swd-wg@w3.org,public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf@w3.org
The record of today's RDF-in-XHTML Task Force telecon is now available:
http://www.w3.org/2008/11/20-rdfa-minutes.html
A text snapshot follows.
----
RDF-in-XHTML Task Force
20 Nov 2008
[2]Agenda
[2] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2008Nov/0032.html
See also: [3]IRC log, previous [4]2008-11-06
[3] http://www.w3.org/2008/11/20-rdfa-irc
[4] http://www.w3.org/2008/11/06-rdfa-minutes.html
Attendees
Present
Ralph Swick, Shane McCarron, Steven Pemberton, Manu Sporny,
Ben Adida, Mark Birbeck
Regrets
Michael
Chair
Ben
Scribe
Ralph
Contents
* Topics
1. Action Items
2. Test Cases
3. Question on spec from Johan
* Summary of Action Items
_____________________________________________________
Ben: I was invited to talk with Interlab (at Lawrence Livermore)
alongside some Microformat folk,
... had a lovely time
... agreement that there was a place for both RDFa and Microformats
... a range of stuff people want to express
... use microformat vcard if it does what you want, use RDFa if you
need to extend
... that audience pretty quickly saw the need to add their own
extensions
<msporny> [10]http://microformats.org/wiki/Main_Page
[10] http://microformats.org/wiki/Main_Page
<msporny> [11]http://microformats.org/wiki/hcard
[11] http://microformats.org/wiki/hcard
Manu: Microformats is starting to markup their site in a style
similar to W3C
Ben: get them to use RDFa in their specs :)
Ralph: yeah, embarass W3C into publishing RECs with RDFa by being
second to do it ;)
Action Items
ACTION: [DONE] Ben to add forward pointer to old task force page to
point to new TF page. [recorded in
[12]http://www.w3.org/2008/11/06-rdfa-minutes.html#action13]
[12] http://www.w3.org/2008/11/06-rdfa-minutes.html#action13
Ben: required writing a new task force page 'cause we didn't really
have one
<benadida> old tf page -->
[13]http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/BestPractices/HTML/
[13] http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/BestPractices/HTML/
<benadida> new tf page --> [14]http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/RDFa/
[14] http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/RDFa/
Ben: Michael had created a page, now cited from the new page, but it
had too much detail for a TF home page
Manu: add a link to the wiki
ACTION: [PENDING] Ben to add public-rdfa examples to wiki and think
of slightly improved top-level organization [recorded in
[15]http://www.w3.org/2008/11/06-rdfa-minutes.html#action11]
[15] http://www.w3.org/2008/11/06-rdfa-minutes.html#action11
ACTION: [PENDING] Ben to put up information on "how to write RDFa"
with screencast possibly and instructions on bookmarklet. [recorded
in [16]http://www.w3.org/2008/11/06-rdfa-minutes.html#action12]
[16] http://www.w3.org/2008/11/06-rdfa-minutes.html#action12
ACTION: [DONE] Manu to add test case for empty @about inside a chain
[recorded in
[17]http://www.w3.org/2008/11/06-rdfa-minutes.html#action14]
[17] http://www.w3.org/2008/11/06-rdfa-minutes.html#action14
Manu: see [18]test case 120; "empty string "" is not equivalent to
NULL"
[18] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2008Nov/0031.html
ACTION: [PENDING] Jeremy to demonstrate GRDDL with XHTML/RDFa once
the NS URI is set up. [recorded in
[19]http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action03]
[19] http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action03
ACTION: [PENDING] Manu talk with Jamie McCarthy about an AskSlashdot
piece [recorded in
[20]http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action04]
[20] http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action04
ACTION: [DONE] Manu to create two TCs to test fragment identifiers
dropped during URI resolution against [base] [recorded in
[21]http://www.w3.org/2008/10/09-rdfa-minutes.html#action13]
[21] http://www.w3.org/2008/10/09-rdfa-minutes.html#action13
Manu:see test cases [22]118; Fragment identifiers stripped from BASE
and [23]119; Fragment identifiers resolved correctly for
subjects/objects
[22] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2008Nov/0029.html
[23] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2008Nov/0030.html
ACTION: [PENDING] Manu to write summary for Semantic Web Use Cases
for Ivan. [recorded in
[24]http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action09]
[24] http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action09
ACTION: [PENDING] Manu write the perl code for Slashdot. [recorded
in [25]http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action11]
[25] http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action11
ACTION: [PENDING] Mark create base wizard suitable for cloning
[recorded in
[26]http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action12]
[26] http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action12
Ben: should we look for more resources on this? some collaborators?
Mark: I volunteered for this action because I do have an old wizard
for XForms
... was originally written for a plug-in that required installation
... we have a new project; Ubiquity XForms that's an ajax library
... the wizard running in Ubiquity XForms would run on any browser
... that's what I've been planning to do
... just been swamped
Ben: I'd come across Ubiquity XForms while searching for something
else
... seems pretty cool
... perhaps I might be able to help
Mark: happy to share what I have; may be a good way to learn XForms
too
... it's not a complex wizard
... I used the FOAF RDF Schema in my old wizard, which I thought
made this more useful
<Steven> Advert for Ben -
[27]http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Forms/2003/xforms-for-html-authors.html
[27] http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Forms/2003/xforms-for-html-authors.html
Ben: yes, nice to drive the whole thing from RDF
ACTION: Mark to send Ben ubiquity related wizard stuff [recorded in
[28]http://www.w3.org/2008/11/20-rdfa-minutes.html#action11]
ACTION: [PENDING] Mark write foaf examples for wiki [recorded in
[29]http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action13]
[29] http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action13
ACTION: [PENDING] Michael to create 'RDFa for uF users' on RDFa Wiki
[recorded in
[30]http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action14]
[30] http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action14
ACTION: [PENDING] Ralph think about RSS+RDFa [recorded in
[31]http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action15]
[31] http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action15
Ben: RSS+RDFa came up at the Interlab talk
<markbirbeck> Ubiquity XForms
[32]http://ubiquity-xforms.googlecode.com/
[32] http://ubiquity-xforms.googlecode.com/
Ben: extensibility is important
Steven: I wrote something on one of Mark's wikis a while ago
... but it disappeared
Mark: yeah, unfortunately I lost that wiki data due to spam
Manu: there's a lot of similarity between hAtom and SIOC
... ought to be easy to write a tool to extract the SIOC triples and
rewrite it as hAtom
... use SIOC as the base syndication format
Ben: Atom is built to be extensible
... so there's an interesting case to be made specifically for this
use case
<Steven> [$1\47]
<Steven>
<[33]http://internet-apps.blogspot.com/2005/01/xhtml-2-as-universal-
document.htm
[33] http://internet-apps.blogspot.com/2005/01/xhtml-2-as-universal-document.htm
<Steven> l>
<Steven> [$1\47]
<[34]http://www.xforms-wiki.com/bin/view/Main/LanguageRdfAExampleRSS
>
[34] http://www.xforms-wiki.com/bin/view/Main/LanguageRdfAExampleRSS%3E
Steven: [$1\47] is the dead link
<Steven> More on rss+RDFa -
[35]http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/syndication/message/548
[35] http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/syndication/message/548
Test Cases
Test 116
<msporny> TC 116:
[36]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2008N
ov/0027.html
[36] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2008Nov/0027.html
-> [37]Test Case #116: Relative URLs must be resolved in resulting
triples
[37] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2008Nov/0027.html
<msporny> Title should be "XML Entities must be supported by RDFa
parser"
Ralph: it's important that the MIME type of the document describing
the expected results is clear. E.g. if it's XML then some
re-encoding is needed
RESOLUTION: test case 116 approved
Test 117
<msporny> TC 117:
[38]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2008N
ov/0028.html
[38] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2008Nov/0028.html
Manu: 117 is Toby Inkster's test for reserved words in @property; a
negative test
Manu: any other triples that shouldn't be generated? :)
Mark: Toby's wording suggested a specific triple shouldn't be
generated
... in fact, this test should generate _no_ triples
RESOLUTION: test case 117 approved
Test 118
<msporny> TC 118:
[39]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2008N
ov/0029.html
[39] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2008Nov/0029.html
<msporny> Description should be: "This test case should strip the
fragment from [base] when generating the subject of the triple."
<msporny> That description should replace the contents of the <p>
tag
Mark: I'd like to see a test with base in the body
... the algorithm for @about="" needs to do the correct thing in
both HEAD and BODY
Manu: could add another triple in the body in 118
<msporny> <body>
<msporny> <div property="dc:contributor">Mark Birbeck</div> added
this
<msporny> triple test.
<msporny> </body>
Manu: add this to 118
<msporny> ASK WHERE {
<msporny> <[40]http://www.example.org/tc118.xhtml>
[40] http://www.example.org/tc118.xhtml%3E
<msporny> <[41]http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/title>
[41] http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/title%3E
<msporny> "Test 0118" .
<msporny> <[42]http://www.example.org/tc118.xhtml>
[42] http://www.example.org/tc118.xhtml%3E
<msporny> <[43]http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/contributor>
[43] http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/contributor%3E
<msporny> "Mark Birbeck" .
<msporny> }
..
<msporny> Corrected HTML:
<msporny> <?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
<msporny> <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML+RDFa 1.0//EN"
<msporny> "[44]http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/DTD/xhtml-rdfa-1.dtd">
[44] http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/DTD/xhtml-rdfa-1.dtd
<msporny> <html xmlns="[45]http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml"
[45] http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml
<msporny> xmlns:dc="[46]http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/">
[46] http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/
<msporny> <head>
<msporny> <base
href="[47]http://www.example.org/tc118.xhtml#fragment"></base>
[47] http://www.example.org/tc118.xhtml#fragment
<msporny> <title property="dc:title">Test 0118</title>
<msporny> </head>
<msporny> <body>
<msporny> <p>
<msporny> <div property="dc:contributor">Mark Birbeck</div> added
this
<msporny> triple test.
<msporny> </p>
<msporny> </body>
<msporny> </html>
RESOLUTION: test case 118 approved with addition of triple in body
Test 119
-> [48]Test Case #119: Fragment identifiers resolved correctly for
subjects/objects
[48] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2008Nov/0030.html
<msporny> TC 119:
[49]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2008N
ov/0030.html
[49] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2008Nov/0030.html
Manu: note @about as well as @href with an invalid fragment
... I believe per the HTML spec that the last fragment identifier is
the one that's used
Ben: how do browsers behave?
Mark: not sure you can rely on the browser behavior here
Ralph: I recommend that the test case cite the part of the HTML spec
you're relying on for the "#invalid#manu" resolution
Mark: I have a URI test suite that I'd built out of frustration a
while ago
... I believe I have an RFC-faithful implementation
<ShaneM> I get this: <[50]http://www.example.org/tc119.xhtml#tc-119>
<[51]http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/contributor>
<[52]http://www.example.org/tc119.xhtml#invalid%23manu>
[50] http://www.example.org/tc119.xhtml#tc-119%3E
[51] http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/contributor%3E
[52] http://www.example.org/tc119.xhtml#invalid%23manu%3E
Mark: and my implementation retains everything after the first '#'
... the first '#' indicates "from here on you have a fragment
identifier"
Shane: I agree with Mark
... as does my implementation
<markbirbeck>
[53]http://ubiquity-backplane.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/_unit-tests/m
ain.html
[53] http://ubiquity-backplane.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/_unit-tests/main.html
Shane: using a standard perl URI library, everything after the first
embedded '#' is URI-encoded
... kind of surprising; I didn't expect this
<markbirbeck> This is a test suite that uses all of the examples in
the RFC.
Mark: the re-encoding isn't wrong
Ben: we need to be sure about the URI spec before we approve 119
<msporny> TC 120:
[54]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2008N
ov/0031.html
[54] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2008Nov/0031.html
Test 120
-> [55]Test Case #120: empty string "" is not equivalent to NULL
[55] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2008Nov/0031.html
RESOLUTION: test 120 approved
Question on spec from Johan
<ShaneM> email said: Step 7 and 9 create RDF triples using the [new
[ subject] ([56]http://www.w3.org/TR/rdfa-syntax/#T_new_subject) I
assume these create statements are honored if the [new subject] is
not null (same condition as on step 6).
[56] http://www.w3.org/TR/rdfa-syntax/#T_new_subject)
Mark: the reported bug isn't quite correct but he did spot something
... the question asked if there ought to be a guard against not
having a new subject in other steps
... but in fact the guard isn't needed in step 6 either
Shane: by the time you get to step 6 you will have a new subject
Mark: the step Johan is specifically referring to mentions @typeof,
which will always be the case
... the current guard is not at all necessary
Ralph: not harmful though?
Mark: right, I'd remove it in an errata just so it doesn't confuse
anyone else
Shane: let's add it to the errata document now
... I'll update errata and reply to the commentor
ACTION: Shane to update the errata document to reflect that step 6
has extra text about a new subject - also respond to Johan who sent
private mail, copying the task force. [recorded in
[57]http://www.w3.org/2008/11/20-rdfa-minutes.html#action15]
Ben: next meeting in 2 weeks; 4 December
Mark: I have an almost-finished blog post on relating vocabularies;
will finish that for discussion in 2 weeks
Ben: also look at @prefix writeup in the wiki
Mark: [rethinking test 119] I'm now thinking a fragment cannot
contain '#'
... though '?' and '/' are allowed back in fragment IDs
... the reader should stop reading on the second '#'
... that's my interpretation now
[adjourned]
Summary of Action Items
[NEW] ACTION: Mark to send Ben ubiquity related wizard stuff
[recorded in
[58]http://www.w3.org/2008/11/20-rdfa-minutes.html#action11]
[NEW] ACTION: Shane to update the errata document to reflect that
step 6 has extra text about a new subject - also respond to Johan
who sent private mail, copying the task force. [recorded in
[59]http://www.w3.org/2008/11/20-rdfa-minutes.html#action15]
[PENDING] ACTION: Ben to add public-rdfa examples to wiki and think
of slightly improved top-level organization [recorded in
[60]http://www.w3.org/2008/11/06-rdfa-minutes.html#action11]
[PENDING] ACTION: Ben to put up information on "how to write RDFa"
with screencast possibly and instructions on bookmarklet. [recorded
in [61]http://www.w3.org/2008/11/06-rdfa-minutes.html#action12]
[PENDING] ACTION: Jeremy to demonstrate GRDDL with XHTML/RDFa once
the NS URI is set up. [recorded in
[62]http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action03]
[PENDING] ACTION: Manu talk with Jamie McCarthy about an AskSlashdot
piece [recorded in
[63]http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action04]
[PENDING] ACTION: Manu to write summary for Semantic Web Use Cases
for Ivan. [recorded in
[64]http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action09]
[PENDING] ACTION: Manu write the perl code for Slashdot. [recorded
in [65]http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action11]
[PENDING] ACTION: Mark create base wizard suitable for cloning
[recorded in
[66]http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action12]
[PENDING] ACTION: Mark write foaf examples for wiki [recorded in
[67]http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action13]
[PENDING] ACTION: Michael to create 'RDFa for uF users' on RDFa Wiki
[recorded in
[68]http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action14]
[PENDING] ACTION: Ralph think about RSS+RDFa [recorded in
[69]http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action15]
[60] http://www.w3.org/2008/11/06-rdfa-minutes.html#action11
[61] http://www.w3.org/2008/11/06-rdfa-minutes.html#action12
[62] http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action03
[63] http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action04
[64] http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action09
[65] http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action11
[66] http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action12
[67] http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action13
[68] http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action14
[69] http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action15
[DONE] ACTION: Ben to add forward pointer to old task force page to
point to new TF page. [recorded in
[70]http://www.w3.org/2008/11/06-rdfa-minutes.html#action13]
[DONE] ACTION: Manu to add test case for empty @about inside a chain
[recorded in
[71]http://www.w3.org/2008/11/06-rdfa-minutes.html#action14]
[DONE] ACTION: Manu to create two TCs to test fragment identifiers
dropped during URI resolution against [base] [recorded in
[72]http://www.w3.org/2008/10/09-rdfa-minutes.html#action13]
[70] http://www.w3.org/2008/11/06-rdfa-minutes.html#action13
[71] http://www.w3.org/2008/11/06-rdfa-minutes.html#action14
[72] http://www.w3.org/2008/10/09-rdfa-minutes.html#action13
[End of minutes]
_____________________________________________________
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