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minutes, 21 March 2013 SVG WG telcon

From: Nikos Andronikos <nikos.andronikos@cisra.canon.com.au>
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2013 08:57:25 +1100
Message-ID: <514B8245.3090005@cisra.canon.com.au>
To: <www-svg@w3.org>
Hi all,

Minutes from today's telcon are available at:
http://www.w3.org/2013/03/21-svg-minutes.html

And below as text.


    [1]W3C

       [1] http://www.w3.org/

                                - DRAFT -

                     SVG Working Group Teleconference

21 Mar 2013

    [2]Agenda

       [2] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2013JanMar/0074.html

    See also: [3]IRC log

       [3] http://www.w3.org/2013/03/21-svg-irc

Attendees

    Present
           +1.425.373.aaaa, Krit, [IPcaller], ed, +61.2.980.5.aabb,
           nikos, Rich_Schwerdtfeger, ChrisL

    Regrets
    Chair
           SV_MEETING_CHAIR

    Scribe
           nikos

Contents

      * [4]Topics
          1. [5]SVG 2 status
          2. [6]Referencing the HTML spec
          3. [7]SVG font-face-src required in the schema but
             optional in the spec
          4. [8]Matrix specification editorship
      * [9]Summary of Action Items
      __________________________________________________________

    <trackbot> Date: 21 March 2013

    <ChrisL> yay, a new telcon time that isn't 11pm

    <scribe> scribenick: nikos

SVG 2 status

    <ChrisL> status - SVG2 full of broken links

    <ed>
    [10]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2013JanMa
    r/0073.html

      [10] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2013JanMar/0073.html

    ed: There are some problems with broken links
    ... I took a look at filters, it seems we are referencing the
    ED of the compositing spec
    ... Some of the specs we are referencing are quite old. Will we
    be publishing new versions of them any time soon?

    krit: for Filter Effects I'm waiting on feedback on the
    security model
    ... For compositing we have problems with stacking contexts to
    resolve

    ChrisL: I'd like to see new versions for specs that have
    changed. It's ok to point to the old version if there haven't
    been any changes

    krit: I'd like to wait 2-3 weeks for Filter Effects. I'd like
    feedback from Robert O'Callaghan

    nikos: We should check with Rik for Compositing and Blending

    ed: For the masking links, I think we need to go through
    definitions.xml and remove things that are moved to the new
    spec
    ... and setup something like definitions-filters.xml for
    anything filter related
    ... we should do likewise for compositing and masks

    krit: Do you mean we port these files from the other specs to
    SVG 2?

    ChrisL: The xml just defines the links

    ed: We can specify the base URL easily in the publish.xml file
    definition

    <ChrisL> so one edit updates all the links that are generated

    krit: I've updated the file in the filter effects repository,
    How do I bring that across to SVG 2?

    ed: we need to make sure the definitions file is correct for
    the last published working draft, as links will change
    ... we should point to a particular WD

    <scribe> ACTION: Erik to fix the definition XML file for filter
    effects in SVG 2. Point to a specific published version.
    [recorded in
    [11]http://www.w3.org/2013/03/21-svg-minutes.html#action01]

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-3476 - Fix the definition XML file
    for filter effects in SVG 2. Point to a specific published
    version. [on Erik Dahlström - due 2013-03-28].

    <scribe> ACTION: Dirk to fix the definition XML file for
    masking in SVG 2. Point to a specific published version.
    [recorded in
    [12]http://www.w3.org/2013/03/21-svg-minutes.html#action02]

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-3477 - Fix the definition XML file
    for masking in SVG 2. Point to a specific published version.
    [on Dirk Schulze - due 2013-03-28].

    <scribe> ACTION: Nikos to fix the definition XML file for
    compositing and blending in SVG 2. Point to a specific
    published version. [recorded in
    [13]http://www.w3.org/2013/03/21-svg-minutes.html#action03]

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-3478 - Fix the definition XML file
    for compositing and blending in SVG 2. Point to a specific
    published version. [on Nikos Andronikos - due 2013-03-28].

    ed: So Chris, you'll do the publication when everything is
    fixed?

    ChrisL: yes, I may need to get someone else to build if my
    system isn't ready

Referencing the HTML spec

    <richardschwerdtfeger>
    [14]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2013JanMa
    r/0055.html

      [14] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2013JanMar/0055.html

    richardschwerdtfeger: We started looking at this list and got
    up to item 5
    ... looking at focus navigation in SVG. I'm trying to follow
    the same navigation sequencing that is in HTML 5
    ... they refer to how to parse the browsing context
    ... in terms of the definition of the browsing context. Does
    anyone have reservations on me referencing the HTML 5 spec ?

    <richardschwerdtfeger>
    [15]http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/html/CR/browsers.html#wind
    ows

      [15] http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/html/CR/browsers.html#windows

    krit: don't you already reference HTML 5?

    richardschwerdtfeger: not for browsing context

    <richardschwerdtfeger>
    [16]http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/html/CR/editing.html#seque
    ntial-focus-navigation-and-the-tabindex-attribute

      [16] http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/html/CR/editing.html#sequential-focus-navigation-and-the-tabindex-attribute

    richardschwerdtfeger: so for consistency, I just refer to that
    definition

    krit: do we define a window proxy object in SVG?

    richardschwerdtfeger: not sure, I don't think so
    ... we probably will have to

    krit: each browsing context requires one

    richardschwerdtfeger: do we have a window object in SVG?

    krit: yes

    richardschwerdtfeger: might not be an issue then
    ... that makes sense

    krit: is window defined in HTML?

    richardschwerdtfeger: yes

    <richardschwerdtfeger>
    [17]http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/html/CR/browsers.html#wind
    ow

      [17] http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/html/CR/browsers.html#window

    krit: SVG has a window object too?

    ed: yes

    richardschwerdtfeger: I don't know that we have all the same
    methods

    krit: we don't have scrolling

    <ed>
    [18]http://www.w3.org/TR/SVGTiny12/svgudom.html#dom__Window

      [18] http://www.w3.org/TR/SVGTiny12/svgudom.html#dom__Window

    krit: I think it's fine

    ed: I'm not sure that SVG 1.1 has a window definition but SVG
    1.2 does

    ChrisL: SVG 1.2 tiny was the first W3C to define a window
    object, but it's probably quite old and HTML5's is more up to
    date

    richardschwerdtfeger: moving on to 6 then
    ... we need focus and hasFocus from HTMLElement
    ... should we request HTML move them up to the Element object?
    ... what do you guys prefer we do here?

    krit: might be easier to just put it on SVGElement as well

    richardschwerdtfeger: Number 7
    ... tabIndex is a global attribute in HTML so can apply to any
    element e.g. the title element

    <ChrisL> title {display: block; position: fixed }

    ChrisL: it's easy in HTML to say that things in head don't get
    rendered
    ... but we have a bunch of stuff that doesn't render by itself
    e.g. gradients

    richardschwerdtfeger: my recommendation is that we apply it to
    all elements but we stipulate that an element is focusable if
    the UAs default behaviour is to allow it focusable or it has
    tabindex
    ... should we list the elements that don't apply?

    krit: what about references via use?

    ed: could be tricky, do you get one per use or one per
    definition?

    ChrisL: it's assuming one element produces one rendering and
    that's not the case here
    ... we've covered the case with zero renderings, but not
    multiple
    ... it's the instances that can be focused

    richardschwerdtfeger: so we need to modify the definition?

    ChrisL: I think so
    ... I would need to think about it and take a look at what you
    have already. Can we do it via email?
    ... it probably needs to be made to apply to HTML as well

    richardschwerdtfeger: so the general definition is ok, but we
    need to deal with multiple instances
    ... Number 8
    ... part of what is needed for sequential flow navigation is to
    deal with browsing contexts
    ... it doesn't sound like people don't disagree that we would
    refer to the definitions?
    ... I'm trying not to redefine things if possible

    ed: Haven't heard any disagreement so I think it's fine

    richardschwerdtfeger: we have some inconsistencies in naming
    like blur and focus out
    ... This is number 9
    ... do people have thoughts on mapping between the two?
    ... browsers handle it but I'd like to hear your thoughts

    ChrisL: When it was first proposed it was called blur and then
    it changed and then changed back
    ... I vaguely remember firing multiple events, but that's hacky
    ... how do the HTML browsers handle it? are they consistent?

    richardschwerdtfeger: multiple events I think

    ed: yes that's correct
    ... since SVG 1.1 didn't have blur and focus I don't think the
    browsers have them in an SVG context

    krit: my experience is that inline SVG does

    richardschwerdtfeger: for backward compatibility we will need
    focusout
    ... do we say you only register one handler?
    ... or do we say blur and focusout are equivalent?
    ... or do we tell browsers to generate both events?

    ed: the question is how backward compatibility it would need to
    be as I don't think browsers implement this in SVG
    ... there may not be much content using it

    richardschwerdtfeger: the only SVG 1.1 elementthat it might
    apply to currently is anchor?

    ed: animation and editable text in Tiny 1.2 as well

    richardschwerdtfeger: so it sounds like we will have a backward
    compatibility issue if we don't have both events

    ed: I don't think it would be a big deal but it might make
    sense to investigate
    ... there is probably some content, but not much

    richardschwerdtfeger: we will use the HTML names vs the exiting
    SVG names. So will use blur rather than focusout in the SVG 2
    spec

    ed: might be safer to deprecate

    richardschwerdtfeger: ok we will deprecate the old names and
    adopt the HTML 5 naming conventions
    ... Number 10
    ... do we change the document or do we do something specific in
    SVG?
    ... do we want our own version of document or have the HTML 5
    document object change?

    ed: there are only a few things we have on the SVG document
    that are in conflict with the HTML 5 document
    ... I think the HTML 5 spec documents them
    ... I think for the most part, they are more or less the same.
    SVG document is a subset
    ... the only thing the SVG document adds is the root element

    richardschwerdtfeger: the HTML one has a lot of stuff we
    wouldn't implement

    ed: do you want to import from the HTML document?

    richardschwerdtfeger: we need active element, we asked Anna if
    he would put it in DOM 4 (we reference DOM 4). He said no, he'd
    rather we adopt the HTML 5 document interface

    <richardschwerdtfeger>
    [19]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2013JanMa
    r/0072.html

      [19] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2013JanMar/0072.html

    richardschwerdtfeger: last time we discussed it, there was some
    reluctance to do that
    ... this carries over into the next agenda item

    ed: Dirk you thing it should be on the document interface?

    krit1: it feels more natural
    ... we inherit from HTML document in webkit

    ed: I don't have a strong opinion where it goes as long as it's
    there

    richardschwerdtfeger: if we have the two together we'd use the
    HTML document, if you have standalone SVG what do you do?
    ... not support some functions? or have a subset?
    ... Anna's argument was that script developers want access to
    the entire set of APIs
    ... but in a standalone environment I'm not sure what to do
    with that
    ... Dirk you wanted to preserve the XML document object?

    krit1: yes
    ... I have a strong opinion on that, I'm not sure Mozilla would
    let SVG document inherit from HTML document
    ... they want it on the DOM as well

    richardschwerdtfeger: I will ask Boris
    ... we can discuss next week if needed

SVG font-face-src required in the schema but optional in the spec

    <ed>
    [20]http://www.w3.org/mid/CALvn5ECR4cPCgayiKOzGH5U5VZWxCx-bk1Jd
    LSMxSuHG=6nqiA@mail.gmail.com

      [20] http://www.w3.org/mid/CALvn5ECR4cPCgayiKOzGH5U5VZWxCx-bk1JdLSMxSuHG=6nqiA@mail.gmail.com

    ed: I was wondering what we want to do with this
    ... Chris replied and said the DTD is incorrect
    ... I would agree

    ChrisL: I'll take an action to do the errata
    ... and tell IPDF

    <scribe> ACTION: Chris to write errata for ‘font-face-src’
    [recorded in
    [21]http://www.w3.org/2013/03/21-svg-minutes.html#action04]

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-3479 - Write errata for
    ‘font-face-src’ [on Chris Lilley - due 2013-03-28].

    <richardschwerdtfeger> have to drop

Matrix specification editorship

    krit1: Could Rik and I become co-editor of this?

    ed: no objections? That's fine then

Summary of Action Items

    [NEW] ACTION: Chris to write errata for ‘font-face-src’
    [recorded in
    [22]http://www.w3.org/2013/03/21-svg-minutes.html#action04]
    [NEW] ACTION: Dirk to fix the definition XML file for masking
    in SVG 2. Point to a specific published version. [recorded in
    [23]http://www.w3.org/2013/03/21-svg-minutes.html#action02]
    [NEW] ACTION: Erik to fix the definition XML file for filter
    effects in SVG 2. Point to a specific published version.
    [recorded in
    [24]http://www.w3.org/2013/03/21-svg-minutes.html#action01]
    [NEW] ACTION: Nikos to fix the definition XML file for
    compositing and blending in SVG 2. Point to a specific
    published version. [recorded in
    [25]http://www.w3.org/2013/03/21-svg-minutes.html#action03]

    [End of minutes]
      __________________________________________________________


     Minutes formatted by David Booth's [26]scribe.perl version
     1.137 ([27]CVS log)
     $Date: 2013-03-21 21:54:41 $
      __________________________________________________________

      [26] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm
      [27] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2002/scribe/

Scribe.perl diagnostic output

    [Delete this section before finalizing the minutes.]
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Check for newer version at [28]http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/
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      [28] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/

Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00)

Succeeded: s/definition/publish.xml file definition/
Succeeded: s/people disagree/people don't disagree/
Succeeded: s/only SVG element /only SVG 1.1 element/
Succeeded: s/element/document/
Succeeded: s/Rik/Rik and I/
Found ScribeNick: nikos
Inferring Scribes: nikos
Default Present: +1.425.373.aaaa, Krit, [IPcaller], ed, +61.2.980.5.aabb
, nikos, Rich_Schwerdtfeger, ChrisL
Present: +1.425.373.aaaa Krit [IPcaller] ed +61.2.980.5.aabb nikos Rich_
Schwerdtfeger ChrisL
Agenda: [29]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2013JanMar
/0074.html

      [29] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2013JanMar/0074.html

WARNING: No meeting chair found!
You should specify the meeting chair like this:
<dbooth> Chair: dbooth

Found Date: 21 Mar 2013
Guessing minutes URL: [30]http://www.w3.org/2013/03/21-svg-minutes.html
People with action items: chris dirk erik nikos

      [30] http://www.w3.org/2013/03/21-svg-minutes.html


    End of [31]scribe.perl diagnostic output]

      [31] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm

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