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Minutes Thu May 29 telcon

From: Erik Dahlstrom <ed@opera.com>
Date: Thu, 29 May 2008 16:08:05 +0200
To: public-svg-wg@w3.org
Message-ID: <op.ubw5i61sgeuyw5@macbooked.local>

Hello svg-wg,

find the minutes from the May 29 telcon here:

   http://www.w3.org/2008/05/29-svg-minutes.html

or in text format below:

       [1]W3C

       [1] http://www.w3.org/

                                - DRAFT -

                    SVG Working Group Teleconference

29 May 2008

    [2]Agenda

       [2]  
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008AprJun/0068.html

    See also: [3]IRC log

       [3] http://www.w3.org/2008/05/29-svg-irc

Attendees

    Present
           Andrew_Emmons, Doug, anthony, ed, +1.214.557.aaaa, ChrisL,
           zlatinski

    Regrets
    Chair
           AE

    Scribe
           Erik

Contents

      * [4]Topics
          1. [5]Errors in approved tests
          2. [6]public cvs transition
          3. [7]the open edits action review
          4. [8]animate-elem-224
          5. [9]unanswered questions on www-svg
          6. [10]XHR review
          7. [11]SVG WG F2F
          8. [12]testfest
          9. [13]telcon times
      * [14]Summary of Action Items
      _________________________________________________________



    <trackbot-ng> Date: 29 May 2008

    <scribe> scribe: Erik

    <scribe> scribeNick: ed

    <ChrisL> I answered a couple of Kalles font questions

    <ChrisL>
    [15]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2008May/0053.html

      [15] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2008May/0053.html

    <ChrisL>
    [16]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2008May/0055.html

      [16] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2008May/0055.html

    <aemmons>
    [17]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008AprJun/006
    8.html

      [17]  
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008AprJun/0068.html

Errors in approved tests

    <aemmons>
    [18]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008AprJun/006
    5.html

      [18]  
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008AprJun/0065.html

    ED: so these tests are invalid as I see it, how do we proceed?

    CL: mark them as non-approved, and take them out for this release
    ... Kalle also writes that there are additional tests that are
    invalid
    ... some of the converted 1.1 tests

    AE: we'd have to reprocess the testsuite after this, right AG?

    AG: yes, but it's all ready, just run some scripts

    AE: AG will you mark tests as non-approved, and re-run the scripts?

    AG: sure
    ... which ones should I unapprove?

    CL: fonts-gyph-03 is ok
    ... text-intro-03 I'll fix that now

    AE: ok, so that will be fixed now before we do the publication

    AG: ok, will have testsuite ready for publication on tuesday next
    week

    CL: the process of publishing is not that difficult, we just need to
    decide to do it

    AE: so let's do the publication on tuesday next week

    <anthony> ACTION: anthony to send an email out asking for tests to
    un-approve and to regenerate the test suite based on the feedback
    [recorded in
    [19]http://www.w3.org/2008/05/29-svg-minutes.html#action01]

    <trackbot-ng> Created ACTION-2044 - Send an email out asking for
    tests to un-approve and to regenerate the test suite based on the
    feedback [on Anthony Grasso - due 2008-06-05].

    RESOLUTION: we will publish the 1.2T testsuite on wednesday June 4,
    all pending changes need to be in before tuesday

public cvs transition

    AE: status update?
    ... doug was trying to get the repository added, but we didn't
    assign anyone to move stuff over
    ... is that something only the staff contact can do?

    CL: everyone in the group needs cvs access
    ... so that we can all read and write to it

    AE: once that's in place anyone can do that

    CL: yes, but we need to be careful with revision numbers (especially
    on the testsuite)

    AE: and the history will be lost

    CL: yes
    ... the 1.2T spec, 1.2 specs and 1.1 errata should be moved

    <ChrisL> need to talk to systems team to ensure all wg members have
    read write cvs access

    AE: who wants to do that?

    CL: i can do that

    AE: just needs to be coordinated so that we don't check into the old
    cvs-space
    ... decide on a time, or send an email about it?

    CL: will send email

    <scribe> ACTION: CL to move the 1.2T spec, 1.2 modules, 1.1 errata
    to the new public cvs-space [recorded in
    [20]http://www.w3.org/2008/05/29-svg-minutes.html#action02]

    <trackbot-ng> Created ACTION-2045 - Move the 1.2T spec, 1.2 modules,
    1.1 errata to the new public cvs-space [on Chris Lilley - due
    2008-06-05].

the open edits action review

    <aemmons_>
    [21]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008AprJun/006
    4.html

      [21]  
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008AprJun/0064.html

    AE: I'll start sending out weekly updates on edits, to make sure
    that actions are kept at a minimal level
    ... since the spec was changed after tests were made

animate-elem-224

    <aemmons_>
    [22]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008AprJun/006
    3.html

      [22]  
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008AprJun/0063.html

    AE: this is in response to our review comments (from the F2F) about
    making a simpler test
    ... just wanted to respond, the tests are complex and that makes it
    take longer to review them

    TZ: it tests many things at once, it was difficult to verify it

    AE: yes, there are a few tests like it
    ... is it worth trying to make the tests simpler?

    CL: he's synthesizing a quadratic curve
    ... suggest putting it out
    ... i'm worried if it requires particular precision

    AE: the expected result is way different from what's actually
    happening

    TZ: it's also made more complex because of the multiple animations
    ... i'm going to let the implementors judge if it's easy enough
    ... and that it's testable

    AE: because it's a complex test we'd have to debug it over the
    course of several days
    ... it's a resource issue

    TZ: is it just this test, or are the others that players don't pass?

    AE: there are others

    TZ: i could take a look at those tests in house and see if we can
    verify them
    ... I'm going to ask the developers to verify the correctness of the
    tests

    CL: this particular ones can't be simplified
    ... he's correct that you can't simplify it if you want to have a
    curve
    ... he's testing two combined animations on one attribute
    ... otherwise it would just be animated on a line
    ... since it's a quadratic curve and svg has quadratic curves he can
    show the correct trajectory
    ... think the test is correct

    AE: I can email the group with the list of DOH tests that are still
    left to review

    CL: right, but this one is fairly simple still

    <scribe> ACTION: TZ to review the 1.2T DOH tests that are still
    unreviewed (AE will send a list of the tests to public-svg-wg)
    [recorded in
    [23]http://www.w3.org/2008/05/29-svg-minutes.html#action03]

    <trackbot-ng> Sorry, couldn't find user - TZ

    <scribe> ACTION: atanas to review the 1.2T DOH tests that are still
    unreviewed (AE will send a list of the tests to public-svg-wg)
    [recorded in
    [24]http://www.w3.org/2008/05/29-svg-minutes.html#action04]

    <trackbot-ng> Created ACTION-2046 - Review the 1.2T DOH tests that
    are still unreviewed (AE will send a list of the tests to
    public-svg-wg) [on Atanas (Tony) Zlatinski - due 2008-06-05].

    <scribe> ACTION: AE to email DOH to say that we're doing additional
    review on his tests [recorded in
    [25]http://www.w3.org/2008/05/29-svg-minutes.html#action05]

    <trackbot-ng> Created ACTION-2047 - Email DOH to say that we're
    doing additional review on his tests [on Andrew Emmons - due
    2008-06-05].

    <aemmons_>
    [26]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2008May/0047.html

      [26] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2008May/0047.html

unanswered questions on www-svg

    AE: some of these have been discussed

    CL: I've responded to the first two

    AE: no spec changes?

    CL: not in svg, but in css

    <ChrisL> clarifications, not conformance changes

    AE: for the third one, cameron have already had some feedback but
    there's been no official response

    CL: I'm halfway through that one

    AE: ok, the last one then

    CL: he's correct
    ... the spec says that xml:space applies to text block elements,
    which is text and textarea only
    ... the test puts in on tspan
    ... which should be possible
    ... but we need to edit the spec
    ... just going to check the current spec
    ... it refers to text element content
    ... need to say that xml:space also applies to children of text
    element content
    ... we need to errata 1.1 and change 1.2T

    DS: I started to add a definition for text content child elements,
    since you may have a title for example
    ... or an anchor tag

    <scribe> ACTION: CL to add the child definition of text content
    element to cover the xml:space issue and add an errata 1.1 item, and
    fix the 1.2T spec, and reply to kalle [recorded in
    [27]http://www.w3.org/2008/05/29-svg-minutes.html#action06]

    <trackbot-ng> Created ACTION-2048 - Add the child definition of text
    content element to cover the xml:space issue and add an errata 1.1
    item, and fix the 1.2T spec, and reply to kalle [on Chris Lilley -
    due 2008-06-05].

    AE: do we need to track the list better, and make sure it's on the
    agenda each week?

    CL: yes, and reply to each message quickly with links to the public
    minutes

    AE: yes

    <ChrisL> its the same text in the repository version

    <ChrisL>
    [28]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/Group/repository/spec/mobile/1.2/
    1.2NG/publish/intro.html#TermTextContentBlockElement

      [28]  
http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/Group/repository/spec/mobile/1.2/1.2NG/publish/intro.html#TermTextContentBlockElement

    DS: using tracker would be useful, many things falls through the
    cracks
    ... in trying to answer to questions, we should still prioritize
    spec work, we should set aside about 30 mins each telcon for that

    AE: do you suggest putting things in the issue tracker as soon as
    they come in?

    CL: the new tracker can create agendas from the open issues and
    actions
    ... based on due dates too

    AE: the public can't add issues though?

    CL: right
    ... but they can read it

    DS: better than the bugtracker
    ... having two tracking systems is a bad idea

    AE: right, so just paying attention to the www-svg list and adding
    them to the issue tracker would be a good idea

    <aemmons_>
    [29]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008AprJun/006
    1.html

      [29]  
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008AprJun/0061.html

XHR review

    AE,CL: haven't had time to review

    DS: have read it, has alot of dependencies on HTML5
    ... have asked for something saying that the host language defines
    somethings
    ... there are definitions of terms that are defined in HTML5
    ... the content-type, if you have an XML type do this, otherwise
    refer to HTML5
    ... need to read through it
    ... reversing the dependency chain would be an option

    AE: so svg couldn't reference this, since it has HTML5 dependencies

    DS: it wouldn't be neat, but I don't agree with your statement
    ... it has provisions for processing XML
    ... it's not exclusive to HTML5

    AE: what's the due date?

    ED: June 2

    DS: it's unlikely the dependencies will change unless defined
    elsewhere

    AE: if we want to have a formal review we need to get it done soon
    ... so, the dependencies on HTML5

    DS: right, but it's small parts of it still

    TZ: is it possible to do our own interface?

    DS: we've done that already, but we will try to use XHR in the
    future
    ... that's the preference

    AE: in order to get a review we need reviews to the list and to
    compile the list of comments

    <ChrisL> i was dropped from the call, redialing

    DS: I'll review it, ed and heycam should do it too
    ... we could ask for an extension
    ... will do that

    CL: right, so we can do that and still try to get review comments in
    order

    <scribe> ACTION: heycam to review the XHR spec and send to
    public-svg-wg [recorded in
    [30]http://www.w3.org/2008/05/29-svg-minutes.html#action07]

    <trackbot-ng> Sorry, couldn't find user - heycam

    <scribe> ACTION: cameron to review the XHR spec and send to
    public-svg-wg [recorded in
    [31]http://www.w3.org/2008/05/29-svg-minutes.html#action08]

    <trackbot-ng> Created ACTION-2049 - Review the XHR spec and send to
    public-svg-wg [on Cameron McCormack - due 2008-06-05].

    <scribe> ACTION: DS to review the XHR spec and send comments to
    public-svg-wg [recorded in
    [32]http://www.w3.org/2008/05/29-svg-minutes.html#action09]

    <trackbot-ng> Created ACTION-2050 - Review the XHR spec and send
    comments to public-svg-wg [on Doug Schepers - due 2008-06-05].

    <scribe> ACTION: ED to review the XHR spec and send comments to
    public-svg-wg [recorded in
    [33]http://www.w3.org/2008/05/29-svg-minutes.html#action10]

    <trackbot-ng> Created ACTION-2051 - Review the XHR spec and send
    comments to public-svg-wg [on Erik Dahlström - due 2008-06-05].

    <anthony>
    [34]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/Nuremburg_F2F_2008

      [34] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/Nuremburg_F2F_2008

SVG WG F2F

    ED: can we confirm these are the correct dates?

    CL: if we have a testfest before then we also need to decide those
    dates

    <scribe> ACTION: to respond to alexander adams about the SVG WG F2F
    nuremberg dates, and get information for the wiki [recorded in
    [35]http://www.w3.org/2008/05/29-svg-minutes.html#action11]

    <trackbot-ng> Sorry, couldn't find user - to

    <scribe> ACTION: ED to respond to alexander adams about the SVG WG
    F2F nuremberg dates, and get information for the wiki [recorded in
    [36]http://www.w3.org/2008/05/29-svg-minutes.html#action12]

    <trackbot-ng> Created ACTION-2052 - Respond to alexander adams about
    the SVG WG F2F nuremberg dates, and get information for the wiki [on
    Erik Dahlström - due 2008-06-05].

testfest

    AE: not sure if I can travel for personal reasons

    CL: not a problem, w3c staff can run the tests if the implementation
    is available

    AE: so we need to pick a date and location

    CL: if we have it sooner we'll get results quicker, but later if we
    want better results
    ... thinking july perhaps, in good time before the svg open?

    AE: so a virtual testfest is perhaps an idea, so that we don't all
    have to be present at some location

    CL: if people have travelled somewhere, you get the attention of
    everyone, and can ask anyone for running paricular tests

    AG: we could also do it right before the nuremberg f2f

    AE: how many more testfests do we need you think?
    ... it's resource intensive
    ... we could take time from the f2f to do it

    DS: if we're having a testfest in raleigh, i'd have to get somewhere
    for us to meet

    AE: maybe not decide now, but we should try to nail this down for
    next week

telcon times

    DS: this time doesn't work well for heycam
    ... don't want to lose him from the team
    ... especially given the constraints stuff
    ... is it possible to have telcons at different times?

    ED,CL: yes, no problem

    CL: moving it later wouldn't make it worse for him, since he can't
    do this time either

    DS: if we moved it back to the original time he could make it
    ... we moved it because of TZ
    ... we could have one late and one early call
    ... if we can't find a suitable time for everyone

    AE: so we would fluctuate between heycam and slim

    RESOLUTION: for tuesdays, let's do the new time, thursdays let's do
    the old time

Summary of Action Items

    [NEW] ACTION: AE to email DOH to say that we're doing additional
    review on his tests [recorded in
    [37]http://www.w3.org/2008/05/29-svg-minutes.html#action05]
    [NEW] ACTION: anthony to send an email out asking for tests to
    un-approve and to regenerate the test suite based on the feedback
    [recorded in
    [38]http://www.w3.org/2008/05/29-svg-minutes.html#action01]
    [NEW] ACTION: atanas to review the 1.2T DOH tests that are still
    unreviewed (AE will send a list of the tests to public-svg-wg)
    [recorded in
    [39]http://www.w3.org/2008/05/29-svg-minutes.html#action04]
    [NEW] ACTION: cameron to review the XHR spec and send to
    public-svg-wg [recorded in
    [40]http://www.w3.org/2008/05/29-svg-minutes.html#action08]
    [NEW] ACTION: CL to add the child definition of text content element
    to cover the xml:space issue and add an errata 1.1 item, and fix the
    1.2T spec, and reply to kalle [recorded in
    [41]http://www.w3.org/2008/05/29-svg-minutes.html#action06]
    [NEW] ACTION: CL to move the 1.2T spec, 1.2 modules, 1.1 errata to
    the new public cvs-space [recorded in
    [42]http://www.w3.org/2008/05/29-svg-minutes.html#action02]
    [NEW] ACTION: DS to review the XHR spec and send comments to
    public-svg-wg [recorded in
    [43]http://www.w3.org/2008/05/29-svg-minutes.html#action09]
    [NEW] ACTION: ED to respond to alexander adams about the SVG WG F2F
    nuremberg dates, and get information for the wiki [recorded in
    [44]http://www.w3.org/2008/05/29-svg-minutes.html#action12]
    [NEW] ACTION: ED to review the XHR spec and send comments to
    public-svg-wg [recorded in
    [45]http://www.w3.org/2008/05/29-svg-minutes.html#action10]
    [NEW] ACTION: heycam to review the XHR spec and send to
    public-svg-wg [recorded in
    [46]http://www.w3.org/2008/05/29-svg-minutes.html#action07]
    [NEW] ACTION: to respond to alexander adams about the SVG WG F2F
    nuremberg dates, and get information for the wiki [recorded in
    [47]http://www.w3.org/2008/05/29-svg-minutes.html#action11]
    [NEW] ACTION: TZ to review the 1.2T DOH tests that are still
    unreviewed (AE will send a list of the tests to public-svg-wg)
    [recorded in
    [48]http://www.w3.org/2008/05/29-svg-minutes.html#action03]

    [End of minutes]
      _________________________________________________________


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     ([50]CVS log)
     $Date: 2008/05/29 14:04:57 $
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      [49] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm
      [50] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2002/scribe/

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Default Present: Andrew_Emmons, Doug, anthony, ed, +1.214.557.aaaa, Chr
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