- From: Leonard Rosenthol <lrosenth@adobe.com>
- Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 18:51:16 -0300
- To: Jeff Schiller <codedread@gmail.com>, <public-svg-ig@w3.org>
- CC: "Porter, David A" <david.a.porter@boeing.com>, "Dailey, David P." <david.dailey@sru.edu>, Donald Doherty <donald.doherty@brainstage.com>
Let's not forget U3D, which is the ECMA standard adopted by Adobe for inclusion in PDF (and therefore ISO 32000). While a binary standard, it has more traction by 3D vendors than most others. There are also non-visualization standards in the 3D space such as STEP... Leonard On 9/10/08 4:49 PM, "Jeff Schiller" <codedread@gmail.com> wrote: > > Looking at Wikipedia [1], X3D and VRML were apparently developed by > the web3D consortium, are ISO specs and have _some_ traction in the > browser plugin space (though VRML has fallen out of favour). > > Can someone familiar with the history/politics illuminate the > relationship between the W3C and the Web3D Consortium? > > Thanks, > Jeff > > [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X3d > > On 9/10/08, Donald Doherty <donald.doherty@brainstage.com> wrote: >> >> The HTML 5 Canvas spec addressed an HTML shortcoming: no high quality 2D >> graphics. >> >> Others have now extended HTML 5 Canvas to address another HTML shortcoming: >> no high quality 3D graphics (although I don't know that this is standard >> yet). >> >> What I'd like to see is for the SVG lack of high quality 3D graphics to be >> addressed in a similar way. Maybe an official "SVG 3D Canvas" spec? >> >> Don >> >> On Sep 10, 2008, at 3:16 PM, Porter, David A wrote: >> >> >> Indeed, you are prescient about this Donald--there is interesting and >> frustrating stuff out there ahead. >> >> When we go beyond 2D to 3D, that brings up a welter of other mechanisms for >> getting graphics stuff on somebody's display. Here in Boeing of course we >> are deeply involved in massive capabilities like CGM/WebCGM (not me >> personally). Obviously, way beyond what SVG ever intended to address, in >> scope, size, depth. This computer / web graphics arena such a vast field, >> it's hard to narrow down opportunities to choose paths and work on them. >> >> Seems like there is some distinguishing matrix of 2/3D graphics >> characteristics, you almost need a Edward Tufte-like mind mapof them >> floating out there in space, where you could regard their various aspects >> and figure out where the world is going, then flip it around and look at it >> using a different lens. Some of the axes might be things like simple vs. >> complex, declarative vs. imperative, past-present-future (progressions or >> versioning), open vs. proprietary, platforms it runs on, and so forth. One >> might observe the progression thru VML, to SVG, to future versions of it, or >> the rise of integrated RIA graphics thingies like FLEX/Flash, as pieces of >> this larger picture. As it is, it's kind of hard to get oriented to the >> many things that are on tap. >> >> Apologies if I am rambling, but one might set out to articulate some sort of >> positioning of SVG as it is now, or where it's going, in relation to those >> other things, that *could* help someone get engaged. It's a very >> significant and useful standard (IMHO)! >> >> David.A.Porter@Boeing.com >> Distributed Server Integration, GG-GG-5581, homepage >> http://grp-cno-dst-svr.web.boeing.com/ >> Boeing Information Technology, Bellevue Washington USA >> ( phone 253-223-4732, other contact options at >> http://card.web.boeing.com/WebCard.cfm?id=113185 >> Server Inventory links: >> http://distributedserver.web.boeing.com/serverinventory/ServerInventoryLinks. >> htm >> >> >> >> ________________________________ >> From: Donald Doherty >> [mailto:donald.doherty@brainstage.com] >> Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2008 11:37 AM >> To: Dailey, David P. >> Cc: public-svg-ig@w3.org >> Subject: Re: HTML 5 Canvas spec [3D and SVG] >> >> >> David, >> >> >> Thank you for jumping in on this topic. I'm only jumping in now because I'm >> so behind in my email... >> >> >> HTML 5 Canvas brings up an SVG frustration for us. That is, 3D displays! >> >> >> SVG in my opinion becomes very interesting in the context of Web >> applications (as apposed to Web pages...I mean applications like Google >> spreadsheets, docs, etc.). However, applications - and especially those in >> life sciences and medicine - often demand 3D graphics. >> >> >> A standard means for displaying high-quality 3D images would go a long way >> towards making SVG irresistible! >> >> >> Don >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Donald Doherty, Ph.D. >> Founder and Chief Science Officer >> Brainstage, Inc. >> www.brainstage.com >> donald.doherty@brainstage.com >> 412-683-1410 >> >> >> >> On Sep 3, 2008, at 12:16 PM, Dailey, David P. wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >> Hi David: >> >> >> >> David Porter wrote: >> >> ".[Š]Is it a threat or complement >> to one's SVG work? [Š] 'A 3D Exploration of the HTML Canvas Element Greg >> Travis, DevX.com' " >> >> >> >> >> I thought someone else might make a stab at this but given that they didn't >> I guess I will. Maybe I'll say something wrong just on purpose to see if we >> can persuade lurkers to join some of the conversations. >> >> >> >> When I found out about <canvas> I thought it was someone's attempt to >> sabotage SVG. The Apple folks who promoted it tried to convince others that >> it was something entirely different (using lots of fancy jargon to make >> their point). I remained very skeptical. >> >> >> >> Then someone (like maybe Anne from Opera) wrote something in the HTML5 >> discussions that basically said hey mellow out they both do useful >> stuff. So I have mellowed a bit and concede the point. <canvas> is likely to >> be a really fast way of blittiing pixels onto the screen and playing with >> them. Opera and maybe others have been playing with 3D canvas operations >> if only we could put an <svg> into a <canvas> so that we could read the >> pixels back from our <svg> or implement the get Pixel value and put Pixel >> value operations from <canvas> then we'd have something. >> >> >> >> I think the experience with Photoshop and Illustrator indicates that it's a >> lot easier to put pixel stuff into a vector environment than to do it the >> other way around. >> >> >> >> My only concern remaining was that HTML5 would adopt <canvas> and ignore >> <svg> in such a way that implementers might be able to continue to ignore >> SVG. Doug seems optimistic that that won't happen, and he knows how this >> stuff works, so I think we can relax a bit more now. >> >> >> >> In the long run, with the fact that Google now supports (some) SVG in >> Chrome, it may soon be a moot point. >> >> >> >> I would be delighted if some one could put some really simple and some >> really cool demos in the SVG-wiki that show a) how to use canvas and b) how >> to combine the use of canvas with that of svg. The symbiosis could be very >> cool! >> >> >> >> David >> >> > -- Leonard Rosenthol PDF Standards Architect Adobe Systems Incorporated
Received on Wednesday, 10 September 2008 21:57:10 UTC