Re: schema-course-extend: credential or award offered through course.

- P: credential
  - d:
  - r: {Credential, CredentialInstance}

On Mon, Jun 20, 2016 at 6:11 AM, Wes Turner <wes.turner@gmail.com> wrote:

>
>
> On Fri, Jun 17, 2016 at 11:32 AM, Steve Midgley <
> steve@learningtapestry.com> wrote:
>
>> I agree that credential has many meanings across industries. I agree we should try to find a term that unambiguously locates this credential as educational. So, being a frequent simpleton, I'll suggest "educationalCredential"
>>
>> I'd lean toward a generic credential property with a range of
> CredentialInstance.
>
> Given that:
>
> + Credential > Certification
> + There are Certification s
> + There are instances of a given Certification
>    + CredentialInstance.credential = Credential(name="RHCE")
>
> Is something like RHCE or A+ an *educational* Credential,
> or just a regular Credential?
>
>
> + CredentialInstance.credential = Credential > OpenBadge(name="Citizenship
> in the Community")
>
> If I earn an OpenBadge Merit Badge, is that an educationalCredential?
>
> *
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merit_badge_(Boy_Scouts_of_America)#Current_merit_badges
>
> Or would educationalCredential only be for a Degree (as earned from a
> DegreeProgram)?
> - In that case, would it then be degreeCredential?
>
> If it becomes the case that e.g. a Credential > OpenBadge is earned
> per-course,
> there may be a number of .credential s listed indeed.
> - IIUC correctly, educationalCredential could be accomplished with a WHERE
> clause like (WHERE credType IN list_of_academic_credential_types)
>   - list_of_academic_credential_types = enumerated set of qualifying
> Enumerations
>
> (What I should've asked first:)
> What would be the domain and range (d: r:) of an educationalCredential
> property?
>
> - P: educationalCredential
>   - d:
>   - r:
>
>
>> It seems like that would address most concerns, and doesn't change or shade the meaning of the term for educational use, as best as I can see.. Thoughts?
>>
>> Steve
>>
>> >>
>>
>> Just a comment on  the term “grantsCredential”
>>
>>
>>
>> Agree that “grants” is a problem. “Related” is better, but loses the
>> semantics. Courses can result in a credential, be evidence for a
>> credential, be required for a credential etc. Having some variety of ways
>> to relate a course to a credential would be more complex but might be
>> useful.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Robby Robson
>>
>> *Eduworks*robby.robson@eduworks.com <*Eduworks*robby.robson@eduworks.com?Subject=RE%3A%20schema-course-extend%3A%20credential%20or%20award%20offered%20through%20course..&In-Reply-To=%3C2932998b86978e2de38a2030513c60a5%40mail.gmail.com%3E&References=%3C2932998b86978e2de38a2030513c60a5%40mail.gmail.com%3E>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Phil Barker [mailto:phil.barker@hw.ac.uk <phil.barker@hw.ac.uk?Subject=RE%3A%20schema-course-extend%3A%20credential%20or%20award%20offered%20through%20course.&In-Reply-To=%3C2932998b86978e2de38a2030513c60a5%40mail.gmail.com%3E&References=%3C2932998b86978e2de38a2030513c60a5%40mail.gmail.com%3E>]
>> *Sent:* Thursday, June 16, 2016 7:11 AM
>> *To:* Richard Wallis <richard.wallis@dataliberate.com <richard.wallis@dataliberate.com?Subject=RE%3A%20schema-course-extend%3A%20credential%20or%20award%20offered%20through%20course.&In-Reply-To=%3C2932998b86978e2de38a2030513c60a5%40mail.gmail.com%3E&References=%3C2932998b86978e2de38a2030513c60a5%40mail.gmail.com%3E>>
>> *Cc:* public-schema-course-extend@w3.org <public-schema-course-extend@w3.org?Subject=RE%3A%20schema-course-extend%3A%20credential%20or%20award%20offered%20through%20course.&In-Reply-To=%3C2932998b86978e2de38a2030513c60a5%40mail.gmail.com%3E&References=%3C2932998b86978e2de38a2030513c60a5%40mail.gmail.com%3E>
>> *Subject:* Re: schema-course-extend: credential or award offered through
>> course.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 16/06/2016 10:10, Richard Wallis wrote:
>>
>> Seeing the somewhat involved discussion around the description of
>> credentials I envisage either the overall Course proposal (V1.0) being
>> delayed by it or; the credential proposals not being addressed fully.
>>
>>
>>
>> I agree.
>>
>>
>> Pragmatically I propose that initially the property is defined with a
>> rangeIncludes of Text & URL.  This will provide the initial ability to at
>> least reference credentials.  Following on, a full broad discussion will
>> result in a well thought through proposal for a new Credential [or
>> alternatively named] Type.  Part of that proposal being to extend the range
>> of the Course property to include this new type.
>>
>>
>>
>> Why URL rather than Thing? I would quite like to be able to provide a name
>> and URL.  Also, I don't like the semantics of implying that the student
>> will get a URL at the end of the course!
>>
>>
>> As to the currently proposed Course property name ‘grantsCredential’, we
>> still have the question of if ‘credential’ is a good term.  Even if we
>> agree it is, I have a concern about ‘grants’.   The Course does not *grant* a
>> qualification, that is done by an organisation - completing/passing the
>> course leads to the granting of the associated qualification.
>>
>>
>> Yes, I see your point.
>>
>> Phil
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ~Richard.
>>
>>
>> Richard Wallis
>>
>> Founder, Data Liberate
>>
>> http://dataliberate.com
>>
>> Linkedin: http://www.linkedin.com/in/richardwallis
>>
>> Twitter: @rjw
>>
>>
>>
>> On 16 June 2016 at 09:40, Phil Barker <phil.barker@hw.ac.uk <phil.barker@hw.ac.uk?Subject=RE%3A%20schema-course-extend%3A%20credential%20or%20award%20offered%20through%20course.&In-Reply-To=%3C2932998b86978e2de38a2030513c60a5%40mail.gmail.com%3E&References=%3C2932998b86978e2de38a2030513c60a5%40mail.gmail.com%3E>> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Hello all, [apologies if you receive this twice, the message I sent
>> yesterday seems to have disappeared]
>>
>> We have a use case for the schema course extension that user should be able
>> to find a course that offers a qualification the searcher would like to
>> acquire hence a requirement that it must be able to identify the
>> qualification offered to those completing a course, seehttp://bit.ly/sce-us2 .
>>
>> The current proposal has a grantsCredential property of Course with
>> expected (but undefined) type of Credential see,http://course.schema-course-extend.appspot.com/grantsCredential
>>
>> There has been quite an involved discussion on github over the last few
>> weeks around how to describe credentials, starting athttps://github.com/schemaorg/schemaorg/issues/195#issuecomment-220588244
>> The modelling of qualifications, awards, credentials clearly goes beyond
>> the modelling of courses and is being addressed else where (see the git hub
>> conversation for references to Credential Transparency Initiative,
>> OpenBadges, blockchain in credentialling etc.)
>>
>> I would like to gauge opinion on two issues:
>> 1. the name credential is proving problematic as to many it associates with
>> security credential, cryptography, etc. It would be useful to find an
>> alternative.
>>
>> 2. What is the minimum that we need to do in order to deal with the link
>> from Courses to credential/qualification/award offered in such a way that
>> it meets our use case and can be picked up by those looking specifically at
>> educational credentials.
>>
>> Bear in mind Richard Wallis's advice of last week concerning "what should
>> be in Course 1.0" where he advises that fine detail be left for future
>> refinements.https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-schema-course-extend/2016Jun/0015.html
>>
>> I am hoping that the answer is something like a property of course called
>> something like grantsCredential or offersEducationalAward which has an
>> expected type text or CreativeWork or a named but otherwise empty subtype
>> of CreativeWork.
>>
>>
>> Phil
>>
>>
>> --
>> --
>> Phil Barker           @philbarker
>> LRMI, Cetis, ICBL     http://people.pjjk.net/phil
>> Heriot-Watt University
>>
>> Ubuntu: http://xkcd.com/456/
>>    not so much an operating system as a learning opportunity.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Phil Barker           @philbarker
>>
>> LRMI, Cetis, ICBL     http://people.pjjk.net/phil
>>
>> Heriot-Watt University
>>
>>
>>
>> Workflow: http://www.icbl.hw.ac.uk/~philb/workflow/
>>
>>
>