Re: schema-course-extend: credential or award offered through course.

On Fri, Jun 17, 2016 at 11:32 AM, Steve Midgley <steve@learningtapestry.com>
wrote:

> I agree that credential has many meanings across industries. I agree we should try to find a term that unambiguously locates this credential as educational. So, being a frequent simpleton, I'll suggest "educationalCredential"
>
> I'd lean toward a generic credential property with a range of
CredentialInstance.

Given that:

+ Credential > Certification
+ There are Certification s
+ There are instances of a given Certification
   + CredentialInstance.credential = Credential(name="RHCE")

Is something like RHCE or A+ an *educational* Credential,
or just a regular Credential?


+ CredentialInstance.credential = Credential > OpenBadge(name="Citizenship
in the Community")

If I earn an OpenBadge Merit Badge, is that an educationalCredential?

*
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merit_badge_(Boy_Scouts_of_America)#Current_merit_badges

Or would educationalCredential only be for a Degree (as earned from a
DegreeProgram)?
- In that case, would it then be degreeCredential?

If it becomes the case that e.g. a Credential > OpenBadge is earned
per-course,
there may be a number of .credential s listed indeed.
- IIUC correctly, educationalCredential could be accomplished with a WHERE
clause like (WHERE credType IN list_of_academic_credential_types)
  - list_of_academic_credential_types = enumerated set of qualifying
Enumerations

(What I should've asked first:)
What would be the domain and range (d: r:) of an educationalCredential
property?

- P: educationalCredential
  - d:
  - r:


> It seems like that would address most concerns, and doesn't change or shade the meaning of the term for educational use, as best as I can see.. Thoughts?
>
> Steve
>
> >>
>
> Just a comment on  the term “grantsCredential”
>
>
>
> Agree that “grants” is a problem. “Related” is better, but loses the
> semantics. Courses can result in a credential, be evidence for a
> credential, be required for a credential etc. Having some variety of ways
> to relate a course to a credential would be more complex but might be
> useful.
>
>
>
>
>
> Robby Robson
>
> *Eduworks*robby.robson@eduworks.com <*Eduworks*robby.robson@eduworks.com?Subject=RE%3A%20schema-course-extend%3A%20credential%20or%20award%20offered%20through%20course..&In-Reply-To=%3C2932998b86978e2de38a2030513c60a5%40mail.gmail.com%3E&References=%3C2932998b86978e2de38a2030513c60a5%40mail.gmail.com%3E>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Phil Barker [mailto:phil.barker@hw.ac.uk <phil.barker@hw.ac.uk?Subject=RE%3A%20schema-course-extend%3A%20credential%20or%20award%20offered%20through%20course.&In-Reply-To=%3C2932998b86978e2de38a2030513c60a5%40mail.gmail.com%3E&References=%3C2932998b86978e2de38a2030513c60a5%40mail.gmail.com%3E>]
> *Sent:* Thursday, June 16, 2016 7:11 AM
> *To:* Richard Wallis <richard.wallis@dataliberate.com <richard.wallis@dataliberate.com?Subject=RE%3A%20schema-course-extend%3A%20credential%20or%20award%20offered%20through%20course.&In-Reply-To=%3C2932998b86978e2de38a2030513c60a5%40mail.gmail.com%3E&References=%3C2932998b86978e2de38a2030513c60a5%40mail.gmail.com%3E>>
> *Cc:* public-schema-course-extend@w3.org <public-schema-course-extend@w3.org?Subject=RE%3A%20schema-course-extend%3A%20credential%20or%20award%20offered%20through%20course.&In-Reply-To=%3C2932998b86978e2de38a2030513c60a5%40mail.gmail.com%3E&References=%3C2932998b86978e2de38a2030513c60a5%40mail.gmail.com%3E>
> *Subject:* Re: schema-course-extend: credential or award offered through
> course.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On 16/06/2016 10:10, Richard Wallis wrote:
>
> Seeing the somewhat involved discussion around the description of
> credentials I envisage either the overall Course proposal (V1.0) being
> delayed by it or; the credential proposals not being addressed fully.
>
>
>
> I agree.
>
>
> Pragmatically I propose that initially the property is defined with a
> rangeIncludes of Text & URL.  This will provide the initial ability to at
> least reference credentials.  Following on, a full broad discussion will
> result in a well thought through proposal for a new Credential [or
> alternatively named] Type.  Part of that proposal being to extend the range
> of the Course property to include this new type.
>
>
>
> Why URL rather than Thing? I would quite like to be able to provide a name
> and URL.  Also, I don't like the semantics of implying that the student
> will get a URL at the end of the course!
>
>
> As to the currently proposed Course property name ‘grantsCredential’, we
> still have the question of if ‘credential’ is a good term.  Even if we
> agree it is, I have a concern about ‘grants’.   The Course does not *grant* a
> qualification, that is done by an organisation - completing/passing the
> course leads to the granting of the associated qualification.
>
>
> Yes, I see your point.
>
> Phil
>
>
>
>
> ~Richard.
>
>
> Richard Wallis
>
> Founder, Data Liberate
>
> http://dataliberate.com
>
> Linkedin: http://www.linkedin.com/in/richardwallis
>
> Twitter: @rjw
>
>
>
> On 16 June 2016 at 09:40, Phil Barker <phil.barker@hw.ac.uk <phil.barker@hw.ac.uk?Subject=RE%3A%20schema-course-extend%3A%20credential%20or%20award%20offered%20through%20course.&In-Reply-To=%3C2932998b86978e2de38a2030513c60a5%40mail.gmail.com%3E&References=%3C2932998b86978e2de38a2030513c60a5%40mail.gmail.com%3E>> wrote:
>
>
> Hello all, [apologies if you receive this twice, the message I sent
> yesterday seems to have disappeared]
>
> We have a use case for the schema course extension that user should be able
> to find a course that offers a qualification the searcher would like to
> acquire hence a requirement that it must be able to identify the
> qualification offered to those completing a course, seehttp://bit.ly/sce-us2 .
>
> The current proposal has a grantsCredential property of Course with
> expected (but undefined) type of Credential see,http://course.schema-course-extend.appspot.com/grantsCredential
>
> There has been quite an involved discussion on github over the last few
> weeks around how to describe credentials, starting athttps://github.com/schemaorg/schemaorg/issues/195#issuecomment-220588244
> The modelling of qualifications, awards, credentials clearly goes beyond
> the modelling of courses and is being addressed else where (see the git hub
> conversation for references to Credential Transparency Initiative,
> OpenBadges, blockchain in credentialling etc.)
>
> I would like to gauge opinion on two issues:
> 1. the name credential is proving problematic as to many it associates with
> security credential, cryptography, etc. It would be useful to find an
> alternative.
>
> 2. What is the minimum that we need to do in order to deal with the link
> from Courses to credential/qualification/award offered in such a way that
> it meets our use case and can be picked up by those looking specifically at
> educational credentials.
>
> Bear in mind Richard Wallis's advice of last week concerning "what should
> be in Course 1.0" where he advises that fine detail be left for future
> refinements.https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-schema-course-extend/2016Jun/0015.html
>
> I am hoping that the answer is something like a property of course called
> something like grantsCredential or offersEducationalAward which has an
> expected type text or CreativeWork or a named but otherwise empty subtype
> of CreativeWork.
>
>
> Phil
>
>
> --
> --
> Phil Barker           @philbarker
> LRMI, Cetis, ICBL     http://people.pjjk.net/phil
> Heriot-Watt University
>
> Ubuntu: http://xkcd.com/456/
>    not so much an operating system as a learning opportunity.
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Phil Barker           @philbarker
>
> LRMI, Cetis, ICBL     http://people.pjjk.net/phil
>
> Heriot-Watt University
>
>
>
> Workflow: http://www.icbl.hw.ac.uk/~philb/workflow/
>
>