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Meeting record: 2005-06-21 TF telecon

From: Steven Pemberton <Steven.Pemberton@cwi.nl>
Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2005 17:18:57 +0200
To: "public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf.w3.org" <public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf@w3.org>
Message-ID: <op.ssp7hvv3smjzpq@r600.lan>

http://www.w3.org/2005/06/21-swbp-minutes.html

Steven

Now also in monochrome text below this line!
____________________________________________

                                    - DRAFT -

                      RDF in XHTML TF weekly teleconference

21 Jun 2005

    See also: [2]IRC log

       [2] http://www.w3.org/2005/06/21-swbp-irc

Attendees

    Present
           Steven, Ben, Mark

    Regrets
    Chair
           Ben Adida

    Scribe
           Steven

Contents

      * [3]Topics
          1. [4]GRDDL Stuff
          2. [5]Proofreading Ben's reply
          3. [6]Bnodes
          4. [7]IPTC
          5. [8]Interpreting author meaning
      * [9]Summary of Action Items

      _________________________________________________________________



    <scribe> Scribe: Steven

    Absent: Ralph, DanBri

GRDDL Stuff

    Ben: I talked with DanC this week about GRDDL
    ... we would like to add a GRDDLY transform somewhere

    <MarkB_> Ben asked if the XHTML schema would live at the namespace URL
    address.

    <MarkB_> Steven said no decision had been taken yet.

    Steven: Maybe
    ... depends on content negotiation

    Ben: we could specify a GRDDL transform in the head of the HTML doc
    that lives at the end of the NS URI

    Steven: Sounds fine

Proofreading Ben's reply

    Ben: Is my usage of RDF:bag OK?

    Mark: We changed the inheritance rules, and haven't yet redrafted the
    RDF/A document
    ... the example you gave had nested elements in an about, and I'm not
    sure if that was the final version

    Steven: I am sure we agreed to inherit the about

    Mark: I need to check
    ... especially check the use cases in the rdf/a document
    ... IPTC are thinking of adopting rdf/a
    ... one of the examples that someone from IPTC showed asked how we
    were going to do lists
    ... this was one of the reasons I wanted to put the rdf:bag stuff on
    hold
    ... A new requirement from IPTC is the ability to use qnames in the
    object as well as the properties
    ... and I think we do need to think about the bag/list stuff
    ... to avoid repetition
    ... One possibility is to rephrase the example that uses bags

    Ben: can we give you an action?

    Mark: Yes

    <benadida> ACTION: Mark to check edge cases of inheritance in RDF/A
    [recorded in
    [10]http://www.w3.org/2005/06/21-swbp-minutes.html#action01]

    Mark: If those are OK, we can tweak the example

    Ben: I would like to resolve it before we reply, if possible

    Mark: Part of the requirement from IPTC is to keep the markup short
    ... and consistency between how you refer to object and subject
    ... We could use a special character in hrefs, such as "[" to mark
    qnames in href, or different attributes for the two cases, such as
    href and qref

    Ben: This is for brevity?

    Mark: Yes, because their use cases adds MASSES of metadata
    ... and apparently in the WAI area this is also an issue
    ... One way would be to do something special with meta and link, such
    as adding extra attributes, but not generalise those attributes,
    allowing them only on those elements.

    Ben: I think it would be good if IPTC adopted this, so we should
    consider their requirements

    <scribe> ACTION: Mark to create an rdf/a wiki [recorded in
    [11]http://www.w3.org/2005/06/21-swbp-minutes.html#action02]

Bnodes

    Ben: I am convinced, I appreciate your summary

    [12]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2005Jun
    /0010.html

      [12]  
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2005Jun/0010.html

    Ben: But would like more feedback from other members of the TF

    <benadida> ACTION: Ben to put together the "ACID" test for XHTML2
    RDF/A [recorded in
    [13]http://www.w3.org/2005/06/21-swbp-minutes.html#action03]

IPTC

    Mark: Another IPTC requirement
    ... was that they would have many attributes from different namespaces
    on one element

    [14]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2005Jun
    /0024.html

      [14]  
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2005Jun/0024.html

    Mark: we could make any 'foreign' attribute a predicate
    ... this would then work with other attributes within XHTML2
    ... such as media type

    Ben: This sounds a little worrying

    Steven: It might break backwards and forwards compatibility
    ... since attributes might mean different things between different
    versions of XHTML2

    Mark: Well, it's only metadata; it shouldn't matter if it gets added
    to the triple store, even if it means something else as well
    ... the problem is working out what the content of the foreign
    attribute is

    Ben: I won't be able to come to the IPTC coordination meeting in July
    ... Eric Miller will be there

    Mark: I have already talked with Eric about it

    Steven: So have I; don't know if I can/will be there

    Mark: Not clear for me either

    Ben: We should coordinate with Eric

    <scribe> ACTION: Ben chat to Eric about IPTC [recorded in
    [15]http://www.w3.org/2005/06/21-swbp-minutes.html#action04]

    Mark: Their issues are soluble; their higher level issue is whether to
    use XHTML2
    ... instead of their in-house language

Interpreting author meaning

    [16]http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml2/mod-metaAttributes.html#sec_23.2.

      [16] http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml2/mod-metaAttributes.html#sec_23.2.

    Ben: The question is does the wording imply that a rel= implies an rdf
    statement

    ?

    Mark: Well, the idea is that you are making RDF statements whether you
    like it or not

    Steven: Would you like to replace "The metadata attributes can be used
    to generate RDF statements." with
    ... The metadata attributes represent RDF statements.

    Ben: Yes, that would be fine. I thought it might just be a wording
    issue
    ... It is basically to do with author intent
    ... whether they really meant to say what we will extract in rdf
    triples
    ... Are there examples where the author wouldn't be generating rdf?

    Steven: Well rel="next" can be used by the user agent to automatically
    go to the next document
    ... and the author may not have been thinking rdf
    ... but I see no harm in this also representing rdf

    Ben: I want to avoid the situation where there could be any ambiguity
    in whether the author really meant what is in the markup

    <danbri> (vmtf overrunning...)

    <benadida> please join us!

    Mark: XHTML2 reserves all unprefixed values

    Ben: So any prefixed values mean nothing in XHTML2, and can only be
    interpreted as RDF

    Steven: I think we need to say that there is an equivalence regardless
    of prefix
    ... I don't see why it matters

    Mark: I'm trying to think of how to word it without being too
    proscriptive (for instance to allow flexibility in the use of
    rel="next")

    Ben: That brings us to the question of DanBri's schema, and our action
    item

    Steven: Well, most of the questions just bring up questions in my
    mind, so I would rather discuss it

    Ben: We will discuss it next week then
    ... Steven/Mark, would you please send suggested wording for 23.2 to
    the mailing list?

    Steven: OK

    <scribe> ACTION: Steven send wording for 23.2 to mailing list
    [recorded in
    [17]http://www.w3.org/2005/06/21-swbp-minutes.html#action05]

    <benadida> Steven, can you generate the minutes?

Summary of Action Items

    [NEW] ACTION: Ben chat to Eric about IPTC [recorded in
    [18]http://www.w3.org/2005/06/21-swbp-minutes.html#action04]
    [NEW] ACTION: Ben to put together the "ACID" test for XHTML2 RDF/A
    [recorded in
    [19]http://www.w3.org/2005/06/21-swbp-minutes.html#action03]
    [NEW] ACTION: Mark to check edge cases of inheritance in RDF/A
    [recorded in
    [20]http://www.w3.org/2005/06/21-swbp-minutes.html#action01]
    [NEW] ACTION: Mark to create an rdf/a wiki [recorded in
    [21]http://www.w3.org/2005/06/21-swbp-minutes.html#action02]
    [NEW] ACTION: Steven send wording for 23.2 to mailing list [recorded
    in [22]http://www.w3.org/2005/06/21-swbp-minutes.html#action05]

    [End of minutes]
output]

      [27] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm
Received on Tuesday, 21 June 2005 15:19:10 UTC

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