W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > public-rdf-dawg@w3.org > April to June 2010

Re: [ENT] Review comments on the SPARQL 1.1. Entailment regime document

From: Ivan Herman <ivan@w3.org>
Date: Tue, 18 May 2010 13:31:21 +0200
Cc: Axel Polleres <axel.polleres@deri.org>, Sandro Hawke <sandro@w3.org>, Chimezie Ogbuji <ogbujic@ccf.org>, W3C SPARQL WG <public-rdf-dawg@w3.org>
Message-Id: <175D9E6E-7285-4C69-942C-DD7A6D041648@w3.org>
To: Birte Glimm <birte.glimm@comlab.ox.ac.uk>
+1

Ivan
On May 18, 2010, at 13:20 , Birte Glimm wrote:

> That was my understanding too, i.e., we can also just have an
> informative section (as RIF) that explains that by using only strongly
> safe core rules, you get a nice guarantee for finiteness.
> Birte
> 
> On 18 May 2010 09:44, Axel Polleres <axel.polleres@deri.org> wrote:
>>>>> Ok, I'll leave that one as is until there is further input
>>>> 
>>>> I leave that to Axel and Sandro
>>> 
>>> Unfortunately, I haven't had the time to follow this for a while.  How
>>> urgent is this?  Things for me relax a little in two weeks, I think.
>>> 
>>> Offhand, I'm unpleasantly surprised that anyone would want to name a
>>> subset of Core.  Subsetting Core is bad for interoperability.  But maybe
>>> there are issues I'm missing.
>> 
>> If we don't require finiteness any longer, am not sure whether we need an own URI for strongly safe.
>> We may just want to mention in the text that for strongly safe rulesets consequences will
>> always be finite without the need for a separate entailment regime.
>> 
>> Axel
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On 18 May 2010, at 04:54, Sandro Hawke wrote:
>> 
>>> 
>>>> Hey Chime,
>>>> 
>>>> Quick reply. Unfortunately, I cannot be on the call; I am on my way to =
>>>> Sweden...
>>>> 
>>>> On May 17, 2010, at 21:20 , Chimezie Ogbuji wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> Thanks for the review Ivan, see responses below for those comments =
>>>> referring
>>>>> to my sections.
>>>>> =20
>>>>> On 5/12/10 11:04 AM, "Ivan Herman" <ivan@w3.org> wrote:
>>>>>> -----------
>>>>>> Section 7
>>>>>> =20
>>>>>> At the moment, the http://www.w3.org/ns/entailment/ vocabulary does =
>>>> _not_
>>>>>> include the
>>>>>> =20
>>>>>> http://www.w3.org/ns/entailment/RIF-RDF-Strongly-Safe-Core
>>>>>> =20
>>>>>> but only
>>>>>> =20
>>>>>> http://www.w3.org/ns/entailment/RIF
>>>>>> =20
>>>>>> It is easy for me to add this additional URI, but I have to be sure =
>>>> this is
>>>>>> o.k. with the RIF group, and whether it is the correct name. And, if =
>>>> I add
>>>>>> this, shouldn't I add others? Which ones? Axel, Sandro, can you help =
>>>> on that?
>>>>> =20
>>>>> Ok, I'll leave that one as is until there is further input
>>>> 
>>>> I leave that to Axel and Sandro
>>> 
>>> Unfortunately, I haven't had the time to follow this for a while.  How
>>> urgent is this?  Things for me relax a little in two weeks, I think.
>>> 
>>> Offhand, I'm unpleasantly surprised that anyone would want to name a
>>> subset of Core.  Subsetting Core is bad for interoperability.  But maybe
>>> there are issues I'm missing.
>>> 
>>>>> =20
>>>>>> -----------
>>>>>> Section 7.1
>>>>>> =20
>>>>>> I think we have a pending issue as for which namespace rif:imports is =
>>>> in. The
>>>>>> current text does not specifies this at all. There should be a =
>>>> namespace
>>>>>> document, too.
>>>>> =20
>>>>> I have explicitly designated the following namespace URI:
>>>>> =20
>>>>> =20
>>>>>            http://www.w3.org/ns/entailment/RDF-RIF-imports
>>>>> =20
>>>>> I'm not sure who is responsible for setting up the namespace document, =
>>>> but
>>>>> text from this section should be sufficient for the body of such a =
>>>> document.
>>>> 
>>>> I am the one maintaining these and Sandro can also do it. That being =
>>>> said, I am not sure that is the right place to do this. The =
>>>> .../entailment/XXX URI-s are used designate specific entailment regimes, =
>>>> and this is something different.
>>>> 
>>>> Ideally, this predicate should be in the rif namespace, but that would =
>>>> require, I presume, an agreement from the RIF group (that again falls =
>>>> into the domain of Sandro and Axel, I am afraid). We may have to mint a =
>>>> URI of its own, which looks a bit silly....
>>> 
>>> I don't see the rif namespace as a problem, if that's where it makes
>>> sense to put it (whatever it is).  Either the RIF WG is okay with the
>>> design, in which case it grants permission, or it isn't okay with the
>>> design, in which case there are much bigger problems than the namespace.
>>> Of course, the rif namespace is an XML namespace, not (yet) and RDF
>>> namespace, but I'm hoping to make it both with the RIF-in-RDF encoding.
>>> 
>>>    -- Sandro
>>> 
>>>>> =20
>>>>>> -----------
>>>>>> Section 7.1
>>>>>> In other words, I cannot dynamically assign rule sets to the dataset. =
>>>> For a
>>>>>> user this looks like a serious restriction because that means that =
>>>> the dataset
>>>>>> provider dictates the rule sets it has, rather than the user.
>>>>>> =20
>>>>>> Isn't it possible to say that the rdf:imports can also be part of the =
>>>> BGP and
>>>>>> has, well, the same semantics of referring to a rule set?
>>>>>> =20
>>>>>> Actually, the same question applies to various OWL regimes, too. Can =
>>>> I have a
>>>>>> [] owl:imports <...> in my BGP? Should we allow this?
>>>>> =20
>>>>> Per the thread with you and Birte on this, I have not done anything =
>>>> since a
>>>>> more fundamental change to the SPARQL syntax would be needed to =
>>>> facilitate
>>>>> query-time specification of a ruleset to use (and this was ruled out =
>>>> early).
>>>> 
>>>> Well... indeed, Birte convinced me that the current setup is actually =
>>>> fine, and an import can be done via an extra graph that uses the import. =
>>>> That being said, I do not understand your last remark: with the =
>>>> semantics of rif:import one _can_ specify the rule set dynamically at =
>>>> query time (provided the endpoint is capable of reading an RDF file at =
>>>> an external URI). And that is the right thing to have!
>>>> 
>>>> [snip]
>>>>> =20
>>>>>> -----------
>>>>>> I wonder whether it would be good adding some additional (informal) =
>>>> text in
>>>>>> the RIF related text that makes it clear that, although we define the
>>>>>> entailment regime only in terms of the RIF-Simple, it is possible to =
>>>> define
>>>>>> RIF Core rule sets that describe RDFS and even OWL-RL. Ie, with =
>>>> suitable rule
>>>>>> sets, this entailment is much more powerful than it looks at first. A
>>>>>> reference to
>>>>>> =20
>>>>>> http://www.w3.org/TR/2010/WD-rif-owl-rl-20100511/
>>>>>> =20
>>>>>> and to ter Horst's paper (which, actually, still appears in the =
>>>> reference
>>>>>> list) would be useful.
>>>>> =20
>>>>> I've added a new section: 7.2 Custom Rulesets for Common Vocabulary
>>>>> Interpretations (Informative) that discusses this.
>>>> 
>>>> Yep! Thanks
>>>> 
>>>> Ivan
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> =20
>>>>> -- Chime
>>>>> =20
>>>>> =20
>>>>> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
>>>> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>>>>> =20
>>>>> P Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail
>>>>> =20
>>>>> Cleveland Clinic is ranked one of the top hospitals
>>>>> in America by U.S.News & World Report (2009). =20
>>>>> Visit us online at http://www.clevelandclinic.org for
>>>>> a complete listing of our services, staff and
>>>>> locations.
>>>>> =20
>>>>> =20
>>>>> Confidentiality Note:  This message is intended for use
>>>>> only by the individual or entity to which it is addressed
>>>>> and may contain information that is privileged,
>>>>> confidential, and exempt from disclosure under applicable
>>>>> law.  If the reader of this message is not the intended
>>>>> recipient or the employee or agent responsible for
>>>>> delivering the message to the intended recipient, you are
>>>>> hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or
>>>>> copying of this communication is strictly prohibited.  If
>>>>> you have received this communication in error,  please
>>>>> contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in
>>>>> its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy.  Thank you.
>>>>> =20
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> ----
>>>> Ivan Herman, W3C Semantic Web Activity Lead
>>>> Home: http://www.w3.org/People/Ivan/
>>>> mobile: +31-641044153
>>>> PGP Key: http://www.ivan-herman.net/pgpkey.html
>>>> FOAF: http://www.ivan-herman.net/foaf.rdf
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> --Apple-Mail-20--508810017
>>>> Content-Disposition: attachment;
>>>>       filename=smime.p7s
>>>> Content-Type: application/pkcs7-signature;
>>>>       name=smime.p7s
>>>> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
>>>> 
>>>> MIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAqCAMIACAQExCzAJBgUrDgMCGgUAMIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAQAAoIIL8TCCAtAw
>>>> ggI5oAMCAQICEEqSoKsbh13PhKdeqPhU+AowDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEFBQAwYjELMAkGA1UEBhMCWkEx
>>>> JTAjBgNVBAoTHFRoYXd0ZSBDb25zdWx0aW5nIChQdHkpIEx0ZC4xLDAqBgNVBAMTI1RoYXd0ZSBQ
>>>> ZXJzb25hbCBGcmVlbWFpbCBJc3N1aW5nIENBMB4XDTA5MDkxODE2MDgwOVoXDTEwMDkxODE2MDgw
>>>> OVowPTEfMB0GA1UEAxMWVGhhd3RlIEZyZWVtYWlsIE1lbWJlcjEaMBgGCSqGSIb3DQEJARYLaXZh
>>>> bkB3My5vcmcwggEiMA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBAQUAA4IBDwAwggEKAoIBAQC38QtNc0tsiH1iMLGaGsik
>>>> Axy/xBYzndcKc0cIthO5pTxTJnJPMhKXMYjtDmBVPBDZgnII4BJ/ZgZTJonzqAsiCMn487kPE/Pa
>>>> s9fbu0ADxwKPPXuZELrpYQOirIGUiasa4l0xykA+kg/r6G8gLP0Vlc8yus4W5QnqIP4CwV/dDJLn
>>>> /ibReADOD/dyzzSNhDYbOHQvvsbk657s8LGQvzgf52Y/NPw/3sMFXda3FUikiVvhK6P0yBz+kVAZ
>>>> GLBBbDdHoSu9ESeLv9bhuNVHjtPRisQSHrWoMJIQ40tYRJjQDYJ3AZdaoAYMm/udUGyV9E9LKqx6
>>>> sI3OlmrV0wf733S/AgMBAAGjKDAmMBYGA1UdEQQPMA2BC2l2YW5AdzMub3JnMAwGA1UdEwEB/wQC
>>>> MAAwDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEFBQADgYEAAv9nnkFM0hFMc9C48LGyzaEkvUmPeX17O8Ko8bYRFOXrV2Dp
>>>> 8dUhHzJ8Zz3Kps5DoFpoE95SKOZATf4BZ/bL0bZOEgQukui0c3vJGQgcrYJefecQoPvrz8DL94u0
>>>> NHrfNkA2T+xPWYym7hSDGijbp8InLdp0FeGSM+a+iB4cSAswggM/MIICqKADAgECAgENMA0GCSqG
>>>> SIb3DQEBBQUAMIHRMQswCQYDVQQGEwJaQTEVMBMGA1UECBMMV2VzdGVybiBDYXBlMRIwEAYDVQQH
>>>> EwlDYXBlIFRvd24xGjAYBgNVBAoTEVRoYXd0ZSBDb25zdWx0aW5nMSgwJgYDVQQLEx9DZXJ0aWZp
>>>> Y2F0aW9uIFNlcnZpY2VzIERpdmlzaW9uMSQwIgYDVQQDExtUaGF3dGUgUGVyc29uYWwgRnJlZW1h
>>>> aWwgQ0ExKzApBgkqhkiG9w0BCQEWHHBlcnNvbmFsLWZyZWVtYWlsQHRoYXd0ZS5jb20wHhcNMDMw
>>>> NzE3MDAwMDAwWhcNMTMwNzE2MjM1OTU5WjBiMQswCQYDVQQGEwJaQTElMCMGA1UEChMcVGhhd3Rl
>>>> IENvbnN1bHRpbmcgKFB0eSkgTHRkLjEsMCoGA1UEAxMjVGhhd3RlIFBlcnNvbmFsIEZyZWVtYWls
>>>> IElzc3VpbmcgQ0EwgZ8wDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEBBQADgY0AMIGJAoGBAMSmPFVzVftOucqZWh5owHUE
>>>> cJ3f6f+jHuy9zfVb8hp2vX8MOmHyv1HOAdTlUAow1wJjWiyJFXCO3cnwK4Vaqj9xVsuvPAsH5/Ef
>>>> kTYkKhPPK9Xzgnc9A74r/rsYPge/QIACZNenprufZdHFKlSFD0gEf6e20TxhBEAeZBlyYLf7AgMB
>>>> AAGjgZQwgZEwEgYDVR0TAQH/BAgwBgEB/wIBADBDBgNVHR8EPDA6MDigNqA0hjJodHRwOi8vY3Js
>>>> LnRoYXd0ZS5jb20vVGhhd3RlUGVyc29uYWxGcmVlbWFpbENBLmNybDALBgNVHQ8EBAMCAQYwKQYD
>>>> VR0RBCIwIKQeMBwxGjAYBgNVBAMTEVByaXZhdGVMYWJlbDItMTM4MA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBBQUAA4GB
>>>> AEiM0VCD6gsuzA2jZqxnD3+vrL7CF6FDlpSdf0whuPg2H6otnzYvwPQcUCCTcDz9reFhYsPZOhl+
>>>> hLGZGwDFGguCdJ4lUJRix9sncVcljd2pnDmOjCBPZV+V2vf3h9bGCE6u9uo05RAaWzVNd+NWIXiC
>>>> 3CEZNd4ksdMdRv9dX2VPMIIF1jCCA76gAwIBAgIDCEl3MA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBBQUAMHkxEDAOBgNV
>>>> BAoTB1Jvb3QgQ0ExHjAcBgNVBAsTFWh0dHA6Ly93d3cuY2FjZXJ0Lm9yZzEiMCAGA1UEAxMZQ0Eg
>>>> Q2VydCBTaWduaW5nIEF1dGhvcml0eTEhMB8GCSqGSIb3DQEJARYSc3VwcG9ydEBjYWNlcnQub3Jn
>>>> MB4XDTEwMDMwMTEzNTM1NFoXDTEwMDgyODEzNTM1NFowgaQxGDAWBgNVBAMTD0NBY2VydCBXb1Qg
>>>> VXNlcjEjMCEGCSqGSIb3DQEJARYUaXZhbkBpdmFuLWhlcm1hbi5uZXQxGjAYBgkqhkiG9w0BCQEW
>>>> C2l2YW5AdzMub3JnMSQwIgYJKoZIhvcNAQkBFhVpdmFuLmhlcm1hbkBnbWFpbC5jb20xITAfBgkq
>>>> hkiG9w0BCQEWEml2YW4uaGVybWFuQGN3aS5ubDCCASIwDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEBBQADggEPADCCAQoC
>>>> ggEBANJMSIlShzh2egaUn2Yrt4CkXuJxb8t6oNJz9kmquJ3cop6YVamwe9BIuQEoyoXav73jaVm1
>>>> x+HYLF+iOFKD+qGIWEILpxvXeJkshtR/uLT0a5yYcpC3cV4oEF40rDdkhVe+CHyyrmgNMk+7+DED
>>>> /8bcAtTL5plcckrY3FooZjWI9kkJqy+enWvX+OECgP+Ab89in3BzIWYn2y4cdunzKVaWtq4/iapD
>>>> 6eKNgaQc//PTTmJ/M+rWcZupdKtxs9hq/490vTYuz2Fpqhg4CBK/OMeGro0Xe8Vvj2DeWseWh90g
>>>> ZZDGVVveZLWEnU8kQZ3ovDIOudO/UekIILxerVpM0HcCAwEAAaOCATkwggE1MAwGA1UdEwEB/wQC
>>>> MAAwVgYJYIZIAYb4QgENBEkWR1RvIGdldCB5b3VyIG93biBjZXJ0aWZpY2F0ZSBmb3IgRlJFRSBo
>>>> ZWFkIG92ZXIgdG8gaHR0cDovL3d3dy5DQWNlcnQub3JnMEAGA1UdJQQ5MDcGCCsGAQUFBwMEBggr
>>>> BgEFBQcDAgYKKwYBBAGCNwoDBAYKKwYBBAGCNwoDAwYJYIZIAYb4QgQBMDIGCCsGAQUFBwEBBCYw
>>>> JDAiBggrBgEFBQcwAYYWaHR0cDovL29jc3AuY2FjZXJ0Lm9yZzBXBgNVHREEUDBOgRRpdmFuQGl2
>>>> YW4taGVybWFuLm5ldIELaXZhbkB3My5vcmeBFWl2YW4uaGVybWFuQGdtYWlsLmNvbYESaXZhbi5o
>>>> ZXJtYW5AY3dpLm5sMA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBBQUAA4ICAQBdESSYBnnSVwQeV+YFarYCz6wjbFgY4lfR
>>>> HeHKZK1y5xU6f6KHXFyd/FE4pFR8Ng9Tg3rishKMSvSkt/uFBl3tDkQgKY9zHr0XDbGNqwCXoxXs
>>>> Q1jKp28THxs9oq0S6DMG9JX+dl9ocS46x1Ntoy3szPk4wwKkGbCEZAz10EvtA3at6O6Aw+/iP84F
>>>> PTS/rH3I3svCDxc8OfW6FiQoV2oUOfIIZpaLUM5ESwZ8VKEcQB1GhWLdfyc0xmYHF6Tbl+eBPb2E
>>>> XdTBaIcbwABhWtXVO+P0HMnBwTHxbSii8s3JF9hNiBe9kdgKf4CD+26sZ49NHfIax5xeyb8eCfcs
>>>> /wd5NFDxIamEc0dMFvigC5i7zfUmoBsvnRtt+2r1DcGofLm25zoB4KVloYpNNg/jbxvgn3D/NhEf
>>>> xIbko8bxBO74zG4VZ4NvBzGaaEY3Y3VXX2iqF3hmf1QarfqVs3onDVfKkKD0gFEm1AuXWnOaCnFG
>>>> CNgOG2DUGklmJ4j/GaOEDdgr5cwSammwQoV7A2fRH+At7P8/TU7SmNP+vVXl7JWTDCzVFnMLHWET
>>>> 5FZUkAB6Ew5opeKTfJAlrdbNDHhvDy+abcQDUeSMXDq08AzlyruPqu81FOzy8Hj3rkrDD+VAd/Js
>>>> t0AA/ymK6kZC8M2gT2+HbOVX2lAb43yTaIPyMZ8o3TGCAxswggMXAgEBMIGAMHkxEDAOBgNVBAoT
>>>> B1Jvb3QgQ0ExHjAcBgNVBAsTFWh0dHA6Ly93d3cuY2FjZXJ0Lm9yZzEiMCAGA1UEAxMZQ0EgQ2Vy
>>>> dCBTaWduaW5nIEF1dGhvcml0eTEhMB8GCSqGSIb3DQEJARYSc3VwcG9ydEBjYWNlcnQub3JnAgMI
>>>> SXcwCQYFKw4DAhoFAKCCAW8wGAYJKoZIhvcNAQkDMQsGCSqGSIb3DQEHATAcBgkqhkiG9w0BCQUx
>>>> DxcNMTAwNTE4MDI1MjEzWjAjBgkqhkiG9w0BCQQxFgQUr2QvNQZu9OhwFT+pCdI5jcfBlOkwgYUG
>>>> CSsGAQQBgjcQBDF4MHYwYjELMAkGA1UEBhMCWkExJTAjBgNVBAoTHFRoYXd0ZSBDb25zdWx0aW5n
>>>> IChQdHkpIEx0ZC4xLDAqBgNVBAMTI1RoYXd0ZSBQZXJzb25hbCBGcmVlbWFpbCBJc3N1aW5nIENB
>>>> AhBKkqCrG4ddz4SnXqj4VPgKMIGHBgsqhkiG9w0BCRACCzF4oHYwYjELMAkGA1UEBhMCWkExJTAj
>>>> BgNVBAoTHFRoYXd0ZSBDb25zdWx0aW5nIChQdHkpIEx0ZC4xLDAqBgNVBAMTI1RoYXd0ZSBQZXJz
>>>> b25hbCBGcmVlbWFpbCBJc3N1aW5nIENBAhBKkqCrG4ddz4SnXqj4VPgKMA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBAQUA
>>>> BIIBAF0NV3nZIXAYrpOQZ83q8CXOopFRwUHrBSmeqBfwrbNUoQYznNeyhCmTcSmx4pmRI+flc1Te
>>>> y2XXqTLlnExL2jjDs75f4/FmXhMFoGPOORmWoF4Fx4b3dFxLg7u0XcFiZg06ynzsS0AIoiEoS78n
>>>> iBadU1QSAA/nGXwpUyfhPiug0ZHSmGv+OOwbnNR8N0S0o4V2IAhv5YQ3MLirXa76zOB8yHFGuWJb
>>>> IfCgzF9MYoN+oKaBAJjn8C1UIFrNFjUhyF5c2kZGzm7bJCKBupwwQQqISbcVk+FTEUN46MAq7B48
>>>> WmE9QXWF616ychOS4i8OCESmOBOr/dQjOOsu7pXvuTMAAAAAAAA=
>>>> 
>>>> --Apple-Mail-20--508810017--
>>> 
>> 
>> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Dr. Birte Glimm, Room 306
> Computing Laboratory
> Parks Road
> Oxford
> OX1 3QD
> United Kingdom
> +44 (0)1865 283529


----
Ivan Herman, W3C Semantic Web Activity Lead
Home: http://www.w3.org/People/Ivan/
mobile: +31-641044153
PGP Key: http://www.ivan-herman.net/pgpkey.html
FOAF: http://www.ivan-herman.net/foaf.rdf







Received on Tuesday, 18 May 2010 11:31:18 GMT

This archive was generated by hypermail 2.3.1 : Tuesday, 26 March 2013 16:15:42 GMT