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Re: [ENT] Review comments on the SPARQL 1.1. Entailment regime document

From: Birte Glimm <birte.glimm@comlab.ox.ac.uk>
Date: Tue, 18 May 2010 12:20:24 +0100
Message-ID: <AANLkTinHyJDWeCJ2UYMQcNcL7SOktIFubB77CYOrVhcT@mail.gmail.com>
To: Axel Polleres <axel.polleres@deri.org>
Cc: Sandro Hawke <sandro@w3.org>, Ivan Herman <ivan@w3.org>, Chimezie Ogbuji <ogbujic@ccf.org>, W3C SPARQL WG <public-rdf-dawg@w3.org>
That was my understanding too, i.e., we can also just have an
informative section (as RIF) that explains that by using only strongly
safe core rules, you get a nice guarantee for finiteness.
Birte

On 18 May 2010 09:44, Axel Polleres <axel.polleres@deri.org> wrote:
>> > > Ok, I'll leave that one as is until there is further input
>> >
>> > I leave that to Axel and Sandro
>>
>> Unfortunately, I haven't had the time to follow this for a while.  How
>> urgent is this?  Things for me relax a little in two weeks, I think.
>>
>> Offhand, I'm unpleasantly surprised that anyone would want to name a
>> subset of Core.  Subsetting Core is bad for interoperability.  But maybe
>> there are issues I'm missing.
>
> If we don't require finiteness any longer, am not sure whether we need an own URI for strongly safe.
> We may just want to mention in the text that for strongly safe rulesets consequences will
> always be finite without the need for a separate entailment regime.
>
> Axel
>
>
>
> On 18 May 2010, at 04:54, Sandro Hawke wrote:
>
>>
>> > Hey Chime,
>> >
>> > Quick reply. Unfortunately, I cannot be on the call; I am on my way to =
>> > Sweden...
>> >
>> > On May 17, 2010, at 21:20 , Chimezie Ogbuji wrote:
>> >
>> > > Thanks for the review Ivan, see responses below for those comments =
>> > referring
>> > > to my sections.
>> > >=20
>> > > On 5/12/10 11:04 AM, "Ivan Herman" <ivan@w3.org> wrote:
>> > >> -----------
>> > >> Section 7
>> > >>=20
>> > >> At the moment, the http://www.w3.org/ns/entailment/ vocabulary does =
>> > _not_
>> > >> include the
>> > >>=20
>> > >> http://www.w3.org/ns/entailment/RIF-RDF-Strongly-Safe-Core
>> > >>=20
>> > >> but only
>> > >>=20
>> > >> http://www.w3.org/ns/entailment/RIF
>> > >>=20
>> > >> It is easy for me to add this additional URI, but I have to be sure =
>> > this is
>> > >> o.k. with the RIF group, and whether it is the correct name. And, if =
>> > I add
>> > >> this, shouldn't I add others? Which ones? Axel, Sandro, can you help =
>> > on that?
>> > >=20
>> > > Ok, I'll leave that one as is until there is further input
>> >
>> > I leave that to Axel and Sandro
>>
>> Unfortunately, I haven't had the time to follow this for a while.  How
>> urgent is this?  Things for me relax a little in two weeks, I think.
>>
>> Offhand, I'm unpleasantly surprised that anyone would want to name a
>> subset of Core.  Subsetting Core is bad for interoperability.  But maybe
>> there are issues I'm missing.
>>
>> > >=20
>> > >> -----------
>> > >> Section 7.1
>> > >>=20
>> > >> I think we have a pending issue as for which namespace rif:imports is =
>> > in. The
>> > >> current text does not specifies this at all. There should be a =
>> > namespace
>> > >> document, too.
>> > >=20
>> > > I have explicitly designated the following namespace URI:
>> > >=20
>> > >=20
>> > >            http://www.w3.org/ns/entailment/RDF-RIF-imports
>> > >=20
>> > > I'm not sure who is responsible for setting up the namespace document, =
>> > but
>> > > text from this section should be sufficient for the body of such a =
>> > document.
>> >
>> > I am the one maintaining these and Sandro can also do it. That being =
>> > said, I am not sure that is the right place to do this. The =
>> > .../entailment/XXX URI-s are used designate specific entailment regimes, =
>> > and this is something different.
>> >
>> > Ideally, this predicate should be in the rif namespace, but that would =
>> > require, I presume, an agreement from the RIF group (that again falls =
>> > into the domain of Sandro and Axel, I am afraid). We may have to mint a =
>> > URI of its own, which looks a bit silly....
>>
>> I don't see the rif namespace as a problem, if that's where it makes
>> sense to put it (whatever it is).  Either the RIF WG is okay with the
>> design, in which case it grants permission, or it isn't okay with the
>> design, in which case there are much bigger problems than the namespace.
>> Of course, the rif namespace is an XML namespace, not (yet) and RDF
>> namespace, but I'm hoping to make it both with the RIF-in-RDF encoding.
>>
>>    -- Sandro
>>
>> > >=20
>> > >> -----------
>> > >> Section 7.1
>> > >> In other words, I cannot dynamically assign rule sets to the dataset. =
>> > For a
>> > >> user this looks like a serious restriction because that means that =
>> > the dataset
>> > >> provider dictates the rule sets it has, rather than the user.
>> > >>=20
>> > >> Isn't it possible to say that the rdf:imports can also be part of the =
>> > BGP and
>> > >> has, well, the same semantics of referring to a rule set?
>> > >>=20
>> > >> Actually, the same question applies to various OWL regimes, too. Can =
>> > I have a
>> > >> [] owl:imports <...> in my BGP? Should we allow this?
>> > >=20
>> > > Per the thread with you and Birte on this, I have not done anything =
>> > since a
>> > > more fundamental change to the SPARQL syntax would be needed to =
>> > facilitate
>> > > query-time specification of a ruleset to use (and this was ruled out =
>> > early).
>> >
>> > Well... indeed, Birte convinced me that the current setup is actually =
>> > fine, and an import can be done via an extra graph that uses the import. =
>> > That being said, I do not understand your last remark: with the =
>> > semantics of rif:import one _can_ specify the rule set dynamically at =
>> > query time (provided the endpoint is capable of reading an RDF file at =
>> > an external URI). And that is the right thing to have!
>> >
>> > [snip]
>> > >=20
>> > >> -----------
>> > >> I wonder whether it would be good adding some additional (informal) =
>> > text in
>> > >> the RIF related text that makes it clear that, although we define the
>> > >> entailment regime only in terms of the RIF-Simple, it is possible to =
>> > define
>> > >> RIF Core rule sets that describe RDFS and even OWL-RL. Ie, with =
>> > suitable rule
>> > >> sets, this entailment is much more powerful than it looks at first. A
>> > >> reference to
>> > >>=20
>> > >> http://www.w3.org/TR/2010/WD-rif-owl-rl-20100511/
>> > >>=20
>> > >> and to ter Horst's paper (which, actually, still appears in the =
>> > reference
>> > >> list) would be useful.
>> > >=20
>> > > I've added a new section: 7.2 Custom Rulesets for Common Vocabulary
>> > > Interpretations (Informative) that discusses this.
>> >
>> > Yep! Thanks
>> >
>> > Ivan
>> >
>> >
>> > >=20
>> > > -- Chime
>> > >=20
>> > >=20
>> > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
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>> >
>> > ----
>> > Ivan Herman, W3C Semantic Web Activity Lead
>> > Home: http://www.w3.org/People/Ivan/
>> > mobile: +31-641044153
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>> >
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>>
>
>



-- 
Dr. Birte Glimm, Room 306
Computing Laboratory
Parks Road
Oxford
OX1 3QD
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+44 (0)1865 283529
Received on Tuesday, 18 May 2010 11:28:17 GMT

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