- From: Axel Polleres <axel.polleres@deri.org>
- Date: Tue, 18 May 2010 13:17:14 +0100
- To: Ivan Herman <ivan@w3.org>
- Cc: "Birte Glimm" <birte.glimm@comlab.ox.ac.uk>, "Sandro Hawke" <sandro@w3.org>, "Chimezie Ogbuji" <ogbujic@ccf.org>, "W3C SPARQL WG" <public-rdf-dawg@w3.org>
+1, yup that would work for me. On 18 May 2010, at 12:31, Ivan Herman wrote: > +1 > > Ivan > On May 18, 2010, at 13:20 , Birte Glimm wrote: > >> That was my understanding too, i.e., we can also just have an >> informative section (as RIF) that explains that by using only strongly >> safe core rules, you get a nice guarantee for finiteness. >> Birte >> >> On 18 May 2010 09:44, Axel Polleres <axel.polleres@deri.org> wrote: >>>>>> Ok, I'll leave that one as is until there is further input >>>>> >>>>> I leave that to Axel and Sandro >>>> >>>> Unfortunately, I haven't had the time to follow this for a while. How >>>> urgent is this? Things for me relax a little in two weeks, I think. >>>> >>>> Offhand, I'm unpleasantly surprised that anyone would want to name a >>>> subset of Core. Subsetting Core is bad for interoperability. But maybe >>>> there are issues I'm missing. >>> >>> If we don't require finiteness any longer, am not sure whether we need an own URI for strongly safe. >>> We may just want to mention in the text that for strongly safe rulesets consequences will >>> always be finite without the need for a separate entailment regime. >>> >>> Axel >>> >>> >>> >>> On 18 May 2010, at 04:54, Sandro Hawke wrote: >>> >>>> >>>>> Hey Chime, >>>>> >>>>> Quick reply. Unfortunately, I cannot be on the call; I am on my way to = >>>>> Sweden... >>>>> >>>>> On May 17, 2010, at 21:20 , Chimezie Ogbuji wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Thanks for the review Ivan, see responses below for those comments = >>>>> referring >>>>>> to my sections. >>>>>> =20 >>>>>> On 5/12/10 11:04 AM, "Ivan Herman" <ivan@w3.org> wrote: >>>>>>> ----------- >>>>>>> Section 7 >>>>>>> =20 >>>>>>> At the moment, the http://www.w3.org/ns/entailment/ vocabulary does = >>>>> _not_ >>>>>>> include the >>>>>>> =20 >>>>>>> http://www.w3.org/ns/entailment/RIF-RDF-Strongly-Safe-Core >>>>>>> =20 >>>>>>> but only >>>>>>> =20 >>>>>>> http://www.w3.org/ns/entailment/RIF >>>>>>> =20 >>>>>>> It is easy for me to add this additional URI, but I have to be sure = >>>>> this is >>>>>>> o.k. with the RIF group, and whether it is the correct name. And, if = >>>>> I add >>>>>>> this, shouldn't I add others? Which ones? Axel, Sandro, can you help = >>>>> on that? >>>>>> =20 >>>>>> Ok, I'll leave that one as is until there is further input >>>>> >>>>> I leave that to Axel and Sandro >>>> >>>> Unfortunately, I haven't had the time to follow this for a while. How >>>> urgent is this? Things for me relax a little in two weeks, I think. >>>> >>>> Offhand, I'm unpleasantly surprised that anyone would want to name a >>>> subset of Core. Subsetting Core is bad for interoperability. But maybe >>>> there are issues I'm missing. >>>> >>>>>> =20 >>>>>>> ----------- >>>>>>> Section 7.1 >>>>>>> =20 >>>>>>> I think we have a pending issue as for which namespace rif:imports is = >>>>> in. The >>>>>>> current text does not specifies this at all. There should be a = >>>>> namespace >>>>>>> document, too. >>>>>> =20 >>>>>> I have explicitly designated the following namespace URI: >>>>>> =20 >>>>>> =20 >>>>>> http://www.w3.org/ns/entailment/RDF-RIF-imports >>>>>> =20 >>>>>> I'm not sure who is responsible for setting up the namespace document, = >>>>> but >>>>>> text from this section should be sufficient for the body of such a = >>>>> document. >>>>> >>>>> I am the one maintaining these and Sandro can also do it. That being = >>>>> said, I am not sure that is the right place to do this. The = >>>>> .../entailment/XXX URI-s are used designate specific entailment regimes, = >>>>> and this is something different. >>>>> >>>>> Ideally, this predicate should be in the rif namespace, but that would = >>>>> require, I presume, an agreement from the RIF group (that again falls = >>>>> into the domain of Sandro and Axel, I am afraid). We may have to mint a = >>>>> URI of its own, which looks a bit silly.... >>>> >>>> I don't see the rif namespace as a problem, if that's where it makes >>>> sense to put it (whatever it is). Either the RIF WG is okay with the >>>> design, in which case it grants permission, or it isn't okay with the >>>> design, in which case there are much bigger problems than the namespace. >>>> Of course, the rif namespace is an XML namespace, not (yet) and RDF >>>> namespace, but I'm hoping to make it both with the RIF-in-RDF encoding. >>>> >>>> -- Sandro >>>> >>>>>> =20 >>>>>>> ----------- >>>>>>> Section 7.1 >>>>>>> In other words, I cannot dynamically assign rule sets to the dataset. = >>>>> For a >>>>>>> user this looks like a serious restriction because that means that = >>>>> the dataset >>>>>>> provider dictates the rule sets it has, rather than the user. >>>>>>> =20 >>>>>>> Isn't it possible to say that the rdf:imports can also be part of the = >>>>> BGP and >>>>>>> has, well, the same semantics of referring to a rule set? >>>>>>> =20 >>>>>>> Actually, the same question applies to various OWL regimes, too. Can = >>>>> I have a >>>>>>> [] owl:imports <...> in my BGP? Should we allow this? >>>>>> =20 >>>>>> Per the thread with you and Birte on this, I have not done anything = >>>>> since a >>>>>> more fundamental change to the SPARQL syntax would be needed to = >>>>> facilitate >>>>>> query-time specification of a ruleset to use (and this was ruled out = >>>>> early). >>>>> >>>>> Well... indeed, Birte convinced me that the current setup is actually = >>>>> fine, and an import can be done via an extra graph that uses the import. = >>>>> That being said, I do not understand your last remark: with the = >>>>> semantics of rif:import one _can_ specify the rule set dynamically at = >>>>> query time (provided the endpoint is capable of reading an RDF file at = >>>>> an external URI). And that is the right thing to have! >>>>> >>>>> [snip] >>>>>> =20 >>>>>>> ----------- >>>>>>> I wonder whether it would be good adding some additional (informal) = >>>>> text in >>>>>>> the RIF related text that makes it clear that, although we define the >>>>>>> entailment regime only in terms of the RIF-Simple, it is possible to = >>>>> define >>>>>>> RIF Core rule sets that describe RDFS and even OWL-RL. Ie, with = >>>>> suitable rule >>>>>>> sets, this entailment is much more powerful than it looks at first. A >>>>>>> reference to >>>>>>> =20 >>>>>>> http://www.w3.org/TR/2010/WD-rif-owl-rl-20100511/ >>>>>>> =20 >>>>>>> and to ter Horst's paper (which, actually, still appears in the = >>>>> reference >>>>>>> list) would be useful. >>>>>> =20 >>>>>> I've added a new section: 7.2 Custom Rulesets for Common Vocabulary >>>>>> Interpretations (Informative) that discusses this. >>>>> >>>>> Yep! Thanks >>>>> >>>>> Ivan >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> =20 >>>>>> -- Chime >>>>>> =20 >>>>>> =20 >>>>>> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= >>>>> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >>>>>> =20 >>>>>> P Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail >>>>>> =20 >>>>>> Cleveland Clinic is ranked one of the top hospitals >>>>>> in America by U.S.News & World Report (2009). =20 >>>>>> Visit us online at http://www.clevelandclinic.org for >>>>>> a complete listing of our services, staff and >>>>>> locations. >>>>>> =20 >>>>>> =20 >>>>>> Confidentiality Note: This message is intended for use >>>>>> only by the individual or entity to which it is addressed >>>>>> and may contain information that is privileged, >>>>>> confidential, and exempt from disclosure under applicable >>>>>> law. 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Thank you. >>>>>> =20 >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ---- >>>>> Ivan Herman, W3C Semantic Web Activity Lead >>>>> Home: http://www.w3.org/People/Ivan/ >>>>> mobile: +31-641044153 >>>>> PGP Key: http://www.ivan-herman.net/pgpkey.html >>>>> FOAF: http://www.ivan-herman.net/foaf.rdf >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> --Apple-Mail-20--508810017 >>>>> Content-Disposition: attachment; >>>>> filename=smime.p7s >>>>> Content-Type: application/pkcs7-signature; >>>>> name=smime.p7s >>>>> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 >>>>> >>>>> MIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAqCAMIACAQExCzAJBgUrDgMCGgUAMIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAQAAoIIL8TCCAtAw >>>>> ggI5oAMCAQICEEqSoKsbh13PhKdeqPhU+AowDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEFBQAwYjELMAkGA1UEBhMCWkEx >>>>> JTAjBgNVBAoTHFRoYXd0ZSBDb25zdWx0aW5nIChQdHkpIEx0ZC4xLDAqBgNVBAMTI1RoYXd0ZSBQ >>>>> ZXJzb25hbCBGcmVlbWFpbCBJc3N1aW5nIENBMB4XDTA5MDkxODE2MDgwOVoXDTEwMDkxODE2MDgw >>>>> OVowPTEfMB0GA1UEAxMWVGhhd3RlIEZyZWVtYWlsIE1lbWJlcjEaMBgGCSqGSIb3DQEJARYLaXZh >>>>> 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Received on Tuesday, 18 May 2010 12:17:51 UTC