W3C

- DRAFT -

RDF Data Access Weekly

11 Oct 2005

See also: IRC log

Attendees

Present
PatH, DanC, LeeF, AndyS, ericP, SteveH, Elias, Bijan_Parsia, Jos_De_Roo
Regrets
KendallC
Souri
Chair
DanC
Scribe
LeeF

Contents


 

 

Convene, take roll, review records and agenda

<DanC> 27 Sep minutes

RESOLUTION: Approve http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2005JulSep/att-0532/27-dawg-minutes.html 27 Sep minutes

<DanC> 4 Oct minutes

RESOLUTION: Approve http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2005OctDec/0017.html 4 Oct minutes

Next meeting: 2005-October-18

Next meeting scribe: ericP

<bijan> unmute me

<DanC> 3 actions continue

With no news, continue Bijan's actions

<scribe> ACTION: Bijan to take a pass through the editor's draft, listing what will change with the new semantics understanding, and what will not [CONTINUED] [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/10/11-dawg-minutes.html#action01]

QL test suite maintenance

<scribe> ACTION: Bijan to estimate impact of "abstract syntax entailment" etc. on WG test harness [CONTINUED] [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/10/11-dawg-minutes.html#action02]

<AndyS> To be changed: http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/tests/#sparql-query-example-testing-values-isuri

<ericP> Revision 1.445 2005/07/27 17:36:40 eric

<ericP> ~s/isURI/isIRI/ <a href="http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg-comments/2005Jul/0062">potentially addressing</a> Bjoern Hoehrmann's <a href="http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg-comments/2005Jul/0040">comments</a>

<ericP> i thought i had some encouragement in this direction. i will look...

PROPOSED: Approve 21 tests from http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2005JulSep/0491.html except http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/tests/#sparql-query-example-testing-values-isuri

RESOLVED: ericP abstains

<DanC> Oedipus test case (OWL-DL semantics)

<ericP> note for isIRI/isURI: i did not handle this correctly so i expect some turbulence.

bijan: re: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2005JulSep/0498.html first query has one distinguished variable (?x) - ?y can vary from model to model = 1 result. second query, ?y is distinguished -- leads to no results

DanC: this doesn't fit into our test harness because it requires taking the OWL DL closure of the graph

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2005OctDec/0052.html

<DanC> test schema issues

<DanC> ericp's action continues

<AndyS> This changes a lot of bytes - including "out there"

<scribe> ACTION: EricP to fix test schema to match manifest with negative tests [recorded in [12]09/27-dawg-minutes.html#action16] [CONTINUED] [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/10/11-dawg-minutes.html#action03]

<DanC> ACTION: DanC to follow up re optional test based on op:dateTime triple [CONTINUES] [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/10/11-dawg-minutes.html#action04]

<ericP> are there negative and positive syntax tests "out there"?

<AndyS> There is code that processes manifests.

<scribe> ACTION: DaveB to to propose source test to approve [CONTINUED] [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/10/11-dawg-minutes.html#action05]

issues#badIRIRef

<ericP> AndyS, yes, i'm trying to have 0 impact on the standard manifest-processing code

<DanC> 2.1.1 Query Term Syntax under http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/rq23/#WritingSimpleQueries

<ericP> the prob is that the positivie syntax tests don't match the older schema

<DanC> A.1 IRI References in http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/rq23/#grammar

AndyS: Believes http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/rq23/#WritingSimpleQueries and http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/rq23/#grammar are now consistent with each other

<DanC> PROPOSED: that rq23 v1.501 addresses badIRIRef

<AndyS> Note this include http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2005OctDec/0019.html

PROPOSED: that rq23 v1.501 addresses badIRIRef

RESOLVED

<DanC> Re: SPARQL: BASE IRI resolution 7 Sep

<ericP> 2.1.1 Query Term Syntax

<scribe> ACTION: ericP to send [OK?] message to Bjoern. re ( http://www.w3.org/mid/431e392a.225659671@smtp.bjoern.hoehrmann.de ) BASE IRI resolution comment [CONTINUED] [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/10/11-dawg-minutes.html#action06]

<DanC> yes, http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2005OctDec/0019.html is editorial. pls respond to the commentor along those lines, Andy

<DanC> ACTION: DanC to notify www-rdf-comments about difference between RDF URI refs and IRIs, e.g. spaces [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/10/11-dawg-minutes.html#action07]

issues#punctuationSyntax

<scribe> DONE: AFS to propose resolution to punctuationSyntax, folding recent yakker grammar into editor's draft.

<DanC> REQUEST FOR TESTCASE: _ as 1st char of varname, a la http://www.w3.org/mid/20050802193708.4AE45CF@mail.informatik.tu-muenchen.de

PROPOSED: that the grammar in 1.501 addresses issue punctuationSyntax, noting relevant last call comments: twinql Retrospective, Please make sure the grammar is directly machine consumable. SPARQL: Backslashes in string literals, SPARQL variable names syntax
... that the grammar in 1.501 addresses issue punctuationSyntax

RESOLVED: patH abstains

<DanC> ACTION: AndyS to respond to grammar comments (x3) [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/10/11-dawg-minutes.html#action08]

# issues#sort

<ericP> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/rq23/#OperatorMapping

<AndyS> A<B is compare to 1

<AndyS> should be -1

AndyS: A < B def'n in XPath Tests table in rq23 should use -1 rather than 1

<ericP> op:numeric-equal(fn:compare(A, B), -1)

(Table 11.1)

<ericP> A < B xsd:stringxsd:stringop:numeric-equal(fn:compare(A, B), -1)xsd:boolean

<DanC> 10.1.3 ORDER BY "The "<" operator (see the Operator Mapping Table) defines the relative order of pairs of numerics, xsd:dateTimes and xsd:strings"

<AndyS> A >= B says -11

ericP: The second A < B line should be A > B . Will take 20 seconds.

<ericP> 1.507

<EliasT> The -11 is still there.

ericP: rq23 1.508 fixes both typos in table 11.1 -- AndyS concurs

<DanC> PROPOSED: that rq23 1.508 address issues#sort, specifically order of IRI terms

<scribe> DONE: EricP to extend < and relational ops to string, get review by Andy ( http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2005JulSep/0484.html ) w/ fixes in 1.508

http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/issues#sort

PROPOSED: that rq23 1.508 address issues#sort, specifically order of IRI terms

RESOLVED

<DanC> ACTION: Eric to respond to "ORDER with IRIs" comment [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/10/11-dawg-minutes.html#action09]

<ericP> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/rq23/#func-langMatches

<ericP> 11.2.3.5½ sop:langMatches

<DanC> (would it be helpful if I edited the TOC to be 3 levels deep, using XSLT?)

<DanC> langMatches("en_US", "EN")

<AndyS> Typo: s/_/-/

ericP: langMatches is hierarchical - matching up to hyphen

DanC: is this ours or did we take from XQuery?

ericP: It's ours since we already have [ string lang(node) ] made sense to do [ string langMatches(string, string) ]

AndyS: text at end of 11.2.3.5 1/2 brings up fact that lang(?v) when ?v is a lang-less literal is an error - AndyS does not think this should be the case

<ericP> sorry

<AndyS> Example: lang("abc")

patH: is there such a thing as a null language tag?

AndyS: in XML, they use the emty string

DanC: this is not a language tag, it's semantics for the value of xml:lang

patH: Nervous about it being a *type* error as opposed to some other sort of error

<SteveH> type erroris bad for laneg(?x) != "en" where you want matechs on untyped literals

AndyS: we use empty string in Jena, hasn't caused problems

ericP: datatype( ... ) returns URIs from typed literals, I've changed text to make datatype( ... ) on a plain literal a type error

DanC: inclined for datatype( plain literal ) to be xsd:string -- would like plain literals and string-typed literals to be indistinguishable

<EliasT> /me has to go to class at 11AM

<EliasT> 11:30 sorry.

<AndyS> I vote for proposals where datatype("abc") is not an error ( or we need hasDatatype(literal) )

LeeF: Had a one-off need the other day to be able to detet difference between plain literal and xsd:string typed literals

<ericP> are you proposing something like sp:unLangedString?

<patH> could (?) make it be something that isnt a URI, to avoid possible confusion.

<patH> Then BTW, its easy to generate an error if you want one.

<AndyS> Result is currently an xsd:anyURI

<DanC> odd. datatype("http:/.."^^xsd:anyURI) == datatype("foo")??!

DanC: motivation is to be able to query mixed datasets painlessly

<ericP> eek!

<ericP> super eek!

<AndyS> The result is of type xsd:anyURI (which is quite lax)

<SteveH> AndyS, yes, but id like not to, its silly

<DanC> POLL: on return from datatype("abc"): (a) type error (b) either type error or xsd:string (c) sparql:plain (d) "" (e) always xsd:string

<AndyS> Our experience is that users expect roundtripping of RDF/XML (e.g. lexical forms, xsd:strings) big :-(

<ericP> AndyS, c and e

<ericP> LeeF, ... please enter

<ericP> ahh, tx

<DanC> c/e c/d c/e e c/e e e

(a)

(b)

(c) +1 +1 +1 +1

(d) +1

(e) +1 +.5 +1 +1 +1 +1

<DanC> support for hasDataType()?

<DanC> (this design discussion is based on so little experience that it's pretty much a coin-flip.)

<DanC> Zakim next item

issues#valueTesting: handling type "error"s

toward Note on using SPARQL with WSDL 1.1

<DanC> ADJOURN.

Summary of Action Items

[NEW] ACTION: AndyS to respond to grammar comments (x3) [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/10/11-dawg-minutes.html#action08]
[NEW] ACTION: DanC to notify www-rdf-comments about difference between RDF URI refs and IRIs, e.g. spaces [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/10/11-dawg-minutes.html#action07]
[NEW] ACTION: Eric to respond to "ORDER with IRIs" comment [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/10/11-dawg-minutes.html#action09]
 
[PENDING] ACTION: Bijan to estimate impact of "abstract syntax entailment" etc. on WG test harness [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/10/11-dawg-minutes.html#action02]
[PENDING] ACTION: Bijan to take a pass through the editor's draft, listing what will change with the new semantics understanding, and what will not [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/10/11-dawg-minutes.html#action01]
[PENDING] ACTION: DanC to follow up re optional test based on op:dateTime triple [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/10/11-dawg-minutes.html#action04]
[PENDING] ACTION: DaveB to to propose source test to approve [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/10/11-dawg-minutes.html#action05]
[PENDING] ACTION: EricP to fix test schema to match manifest with negative tests [recorded in [12]09/27-dawg-minutes.html#action16] [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/10/11-dawg-minutes.html#action03]
[PENDING] ACTION: ericP to send [OK?] message to Bjoern. re ( http://www.w3.org/mid/431e392a.225659671@smtp.bjoern.hoehrmann.de ) BASE IRI resolution comment [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/10/11-dawg-minutes.html#action06]
[PENDING] ACTION: Enrico to take a pass through the editor's draft, listing what will change with the new semantics understanding ...
[PENDING] ACTION: DanC to ask I18N WG for review of < on strings
[PENDING] ACTION: DaveB to find query with FILTER on URIs
[PENDING] ACTION: ericp to draft lang-match design, summarizing and citing RFC3066
[PENDING] ACTION: DaveB: add to test suite the temperature case from comment on truth tables in commentor's message
[PENDING] ACTION: EricP: respond to comment on valueTesting issue
[PENDING] ACTION: Lee to elaborate on how to use this WSDL 1.1 stuff with tools. progress report 8 Oct
[PENDING] ACTION: KC, EricP to review WSDL 1.1 sparql protocol publication candidate, once a candidate pointer is mailed to the WG
[PENDING] ACTION: DanC: publish WSDL 1.1 sparql protocol note, contingent on thumbs-up from KC, EricP, Lee/Elias
[PENDING] ACTION: KC: review sparql-types for xs:any weirdness, w.r.t. WSDL 2.0 constraints
[PENDING] ACTION: DanC to notifty DAWG of WSDL response to our WSDL comments
[PENDING] ACTION: DanC to ask WSDL WG to review WSDL 1.1 and WSDL 2 SPARQL protocol stuff, once both are available
 
[DONE] ACTION: AFS to propose resolution to punctuationSyntax, folding recent yakker grammar into editor's draft.
[DONE] ACTION: EricP to extend < and relational ops to string, get review by Andy ( http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2005JulSep/0484.html) w/ fixes in 1.508
 
[End of minutes]

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