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minutes RDF Data Access 5 Apr for review

From: Dan Connolly <connolly@w3.org>
Date: Tue, 05 Apr 2005 15:40:33 -0500
To: RDF Data Access Working Group <public-rdf-dawg@w3.org>
Cc: Jeen Broekstra <jeen@aduna.biz>
Message-Id: <1112733633.15073.419.camel@localhost>

hypertext version: http://www.w3.org/2005/04/05-dawg-minutes.html

plaintext snapshot follows:

   [1]W3C . [2]DAWG

      [1] http://www.w3.org/
      [2] http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess

                     RDF Data Access Weekly Teleconference

5 Apr 2005

   See also: [3]IRC log, [4]proposed agenda

      [3] http://www.w3.org/2005/04/05-dawg-irc
      [4] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2005AprJun/0004.html


          Yoshio, DanC, Kevin, HowardK, PatH, DaveB, Kendall_Clark, JosD,

          Jeen Broekstra (sender of comments such as [5]more on
          optionals) participated as an observer.

      [5] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg-comments/2005Feb/0021.html

          AndyS, EricP, BryanT




     * [6]Topics
         1. [7]Convene, take roll, review records and agenda
         2. [8]issue: valueTesting
         3. [9]issue: sort
         4. [10]punctuationSyntax
         5. [11]SPARQL QL publication candidate
         6. [12]issue wsdlAbstractProtocol
         7. [13]SPARQL Variable Results format
         8. [14]Test Suite Maintenance


Convene, take roll, review records and agenda

   <kendall> [15]minutes approved from last week's meeting

     [15] http://www.w3.org/2005/03/29-dawg-minutes.html

   next meeting 12 Apr, DaveB to scribe, risks noted

   continued without (much) discussion:

   <scribe> ACTION: KendallC to work out remaining details in
   sparqlx.{rnc,xsd,rng}: expression syntax, order-by stuff continues
   [recorded in

   <scribe> ACTION: [PENDING] KendallC to incorporate EricP's privacy
   text, salting to taste [recorded in

issue: valueTesting

   <scribe> [DONE] ACTION EricP: to propose to close valueTesting (bonus
   points for test cases, to EricP or others)

   -> [18]11th hour datatype testing proposal

     [18] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2005AprJun/0015.html

   <kendall> some discussion of some of ericp valuetesting tests...

   <DaveB> looking at [19]SPARQL-DT-1-alg.sh

     [19] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/perl/modules/W3C/Rdf/test/SPARQL-DT-1-alg.sh?rev=HEAD&content-type=text/x-cvsweb-markup

   <kendall> HowardK been following along a bit on Eric's design

   <kendall> (discussion of eric's sparql-dt-0)

   <kendall> XQuery makes 42 int and 42 float True (I think? It promotes
   the int to float, apparently)

   <SteveH> I think this test says that xsd:int(42.0) = 42 is true

   <kendall> discussion of 11.1.1 of rq23

   <DaveB> it's refering to [20]http://www.w3.org/TR/xquery/#mapping

     [20] http://www.w3.org/TR/xquery/#mapping

   <Zakim> Yoshio, you wanted to ask if a != b is True if no assertion on
   a being equal to b or not is provided

   <Yoshio> re: Eric's design, a != b should be True

   <Yoshio> following fron link on "!" leads to XQuery fn:not, which
   would say so

   <Zakim> DanC, you wanted to give the "datatype swamp" speech again

   <kendall> danc tries to recruit someone to co-present Eric's design w/

   <kendall> ah, Tuscany...

   <scribe> ACTION: DaveB to work with EricP to clarify valueTesting
   proposal ETA 2 weeks [recorded in

   <DaveB> EricP's proposal seems not to refer to
   [22]http://www.w3.org/TR/xquery/#promotion Type Promotion of numeric
   types, which seems relevant. and has a typo or two re the 2nd test.
   [this is for my information]

     [22] http://www.w3.org/TR/xquery/#promotion

   <scribe> ACTION: HowardK to seek clarification on valueTesting w.r.t.
   differenced from XQuery [recorded in

issue: sort

   <scribe> ACTION: PatH to review sort design [PENDING] [recorded in

   not started...

   <kendall> iirc, Kowari's itQL has sort

   <kendall> Jeen says something about comparing blank nodes and literals

   Jeen: SerQL doesn't does offset/limit but not SORT, yet; due to
   requests, we're starting to have a stab at it

   <kendall> er, iTQL, I should say.

   <kendall> Versa also has sort.

   <kendall> how few is "widespread", I wonder

   Jos: ORDER BY doesn't make sense with CONSTRUCT

   <DaveB> [['Using ORDER BY on a solution sequence for a result form
   other than SELECT has no direct effect because only SELECT returns a
   sequence of results, not an RDF graph]]

   <kendall> order by only applies to SELECt -- we think!

   "Using ORDER BY on a solution sequence for a result form other than
   SELECT has no direct effect because only SELECT returns a sequence of
   results, not an RDF graph. However, in combination with LIMIT and
   OFFSET, it can be used to return partial results."

   <kendall> So, another proposal discussed where the prime designer or
   proponent isn't here. :>

   <kendall> tricky

   <SteveH> Yoshio, there isn;t a way to do that currently as far as I

   <bijanp> (Not quite OT, but related, may be helpful, i'm unsure how
   reliable or good, but:
   [25]http://www.cs.umd.edu/Library/TRs/CS-TR-4611/CS-TR-4611.ps )

     [25] http://www.cs.umd.edu/Library/TRs/CS-TR-4611/CS-TR-4611.ps

   <Yoshio> Hmm, we do need for that function to show users, for example,
   the total number of documents hit

   OPTIONS: 2 questions: 1 prefer to adopt this sort design (or something
   close) vs prefer to postpone. 2: probably object to postpone / object
   to this design or something close

   pref this sort design: 1 1 1

   pref to postpone: 1 1 1 1

   oppose postpone: 1

   oppose sort: 1

   <kendall> KevinW says that some of the complexity in the sort design
   is linked to complexity in other issues

   <Yoshio> in sorting we have an arbitrary ordering for the last resort,

   <kendall> UMD cares more about limit with "next 10" than we do about

   <kendall> fwiw

   <DaveB> ref [26]http://www.w3.org/TR/rdf-dawg-uc/#u2.19

     [26] http://www.w3.org/TR/rdf-dawg-uc/#u2.19

   <kendall> fine-grained parsing of use cases that weren't intended to
   read that way

   (limit/offset seems like a protocol thing)

   <kendall> (er, that's off the record, I should have said!)

   <kendall> (limit & offset were originally in teh protocol, but i
   removed them at andy's urging, as I recall)

   PatH: limit/offset could be done with protocol tokens

   <bijan> limit is in the language now, see 10.1

   yes, bijan... we're discussing whether that's the design we prefer

   <Zakim> Yoshio, you wanted to ask if there is a way (or need for tha
   way) to get just the number of the solutions and to say a project next
   to me deals with patent search, where user

   <bijan> Ah, ok.

   <howardk> for those interested, new version of XQuery WD is available
   at [27]http://www.w3.org/TR/xquery/

     [27] http://www.w3.org/TR/xquery/

   <Yoshio> to ask if "03"^^xsd:integer < "1"^^xsd:integer (lexical form
   rule 4.1)

   <DaveB> I think, yes it says that in the rq23

   <Yoshio> Hmm, horrible, confusing at least

   <DaveB> actually I can't tell since those rules may/only apply if
   operator:< can't be used


   <kendall> There is reification syntax in rq23

   <kendall> SteveH: the value of the current syntax is that it's "like"
   Turtle; so adding new stuff reduces that value

   <Yoshio> yes

   <JosD> yes

   <kendall> Yo: yes

   <DaveB> I'd agree with steve, jos

   <scribe> ACTION: DanC to propose to close punctuationSyntax (again)
   sans <<reifiction shorthand>> [recorded in

SPARQL QL publication candidate

   <scribe> ACTION: [DONE] EricP to notify the WG of editors draft (or
   change of plans) [recorded in

   poll: PROPOSED: to publish [30]SPARQL QL editor's draft 1.290 as a W3C
   WD, with editorial and technical TODOs highlighted, with status ala
   "the WG is preparing for last call; while we do our internal review,
   the community is welcome to comment too."

     [30] http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/rq23/

   <kendall> Yoshio, KevinW, HowardK, PatH, Kendall, DaveB, SteveH --
   support pub'ing now

   <DaveB> I found 2.4, 2.6 confusing in parts. 5.4, 9 defns baffled me.
   2.7 & lots need section nos.

   <kendall> Jeen does too

   <kendall> JosD does by implication :>

   <kendall> no one seems opposed to publishing it, more relevantly

   <DaveB> (in typo land; 3.1 uri syntax wrong; 4.1 empty; 6.2 dc
   namespace urls wrong)

   After discussion of if/how to say "we're getting close to last call",
   DanC is inclined to do another round internally first.

   <scribe> ACTION: PatH to internal review of rq23, starting monday
   [recorded in

   <DaveB> reviewing just defns? or all?

   KendallC offers to copy-edit, noting it will use all his WG time

   <scribe> ACTION: DaveB to review rq23 editor's draft this week
   [recorded in

   <scribe> ACTION: [PENDING] AndyS to clarify 5.4 w/r/t closed world
   assumption [recorded in

   <scribe> ACTION: [PENDING] DaveB to consider dots in qnames, report on
   impact on turtle [recorded in

   <scribe> ACTION: [DROPPED] DanC to review editors draft (delivered 31
   Mar) by 5 Mar [recorded in

issue wsdlAbstractProtocol

   -> [36]protocol update

     [36] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2005AprJun/0018.html

   KC: I split the WSDL into sparql-protocol-query.wsdl and

   DC is interested in feedback from BT, AFS. KC is confident he can get

   <scribe> ACTION: KendallC to own wsdlAbstractProtocol (based on WSDL
   description added to protocol to editor's draft). continues [recorded
   in [37]http://www.w3.org/2005/04/05-dawg-minutes.html#action07]

SPARQL Variable Results format

   <kendall> Has a new name...

   DB: I changed the title, since it's more than variable results...

   <kendall> what's the new name?

   <scribe> ACTION: DaveB to consider use of xsi:dataType ala comment
   from Steer continues [recorded in

Test Suite Maintenance

   <scribe> ACTION: DaveB to to propose source test to approve continues
   [recorded in

   <scribe> ACTION: SteveH to prepare test cases for publication as WG
   Note (no deadline/urgency) [PENDING] [recorded in

   <scribe> ACTION: SteveH to to revise test manifest w.r.t. "background"
   and named graphs [PENDING] [recorded in

   <scribe> ACTION: AndyS to add the above graph test cases (analagous to
   valueTesting test cases) (don't expect quick delivery) [PENDING]
   [recorded in

   <scribe> ACTION: AndyS to propose a test re "x"^^mytype != "y"^^mytpe
   [PENDING] [recorded in

   <scribe> ACTION: DanC to follow up re optional test based on
   op:dateTime triple [PENDING] [recorded in

   <scribe> ACTION: EricP to pair with SteveH on making the HTML test
   results page [PENDING] [recorded in



    KendallC and DanC for the DAWG $Date: 2005/04/05 20:36:35 $
    Minutes formatted by David Booth's [46]scribe.perl version 1.122

     [46] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm

Dan Connolly, W3C http://www.w3.org/People/Connolly/
D3C2 887B 0F92 6005 C541  0875 0F91 96DE 6E52 C29E
Received on Tuesday, 5 April 2005 20:40:34 UTC

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