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Re: Some important insights for getting EPUB 3 adopted in higher education

From: Bill Kasdorf <kasdorf.bill@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2018 12:32:18 -0400
Message-ID: <CALhciFjrK0KFkYmHhAYMsEwMa_7KVbMNSSX7XXng+ecSQw_j1w@mail.gmail.com>
To: Ivan Herman <ivan@w3.org>
Cc: "White, Jason J" <jjwhite@ets.org>, Deborah Kaplan <deborah.kaplan@suberic.net>, Luc Audrain <LAUDRAIN@hachette-livre.fr>, Rachel Comerford <rachel.comerford@macmillan.com>, Avneesh Singh <avneesh.sg@gmail.com>, W3C Publishing Working Group <public-publ-wg@w3.org>
As for Deborah's terminology issues, I always try to refer either to
"dynamic pagination" or "pre-paginated," and specifically to say "print
page numbers" not just "page numbers" when that's what's meant.

Jason is right, in legal, and reference content in general, it is
typical--in fact almost universal--that there are hierarchical section
numbers used to designate structural components and these are what are
cited. We don't have the benefit of those in other types of content.

And to pick up on Luc's comment, when doing modeling for clients I always
include specs for pagebreak markers, and the prepress/conversion vendor I
used to work for, Apex, has put pagebreak markers in EPUBs they convert
from PDFs or create out of a hybrid PDF/EPUB workflow routinely for years.
It's a little extra effort but it is not rocket science. The PShift system
we developed for the University of Toronto Press and their clients does
this in a highly automated way. This is not a commercial; I no longer work
for Apex. The point is that this does not need to be as big a complication
as people think it is.

*Bill Kasdorf*
*Principal, Kasdorf & Associates, LLC*
kasdorf.bill@gmail.com
+1 734-904-6252

ISNI: http://isni.org/isni/0000000116490786
ORCiD: https://orcid.org/0000-0001-7002-4786
<https://orcid.org/0000-0001-7002-4786?lang=en>


On Fri, Mar 16, 2018 at 11:11 AM, Ivan Herman <ivan@w3.org> wrote:

> The reason why the Annotation WG has developed the selector methods (which
> we have started to take over for WP) is to provide "links" into texts
> without the necessity to have fragment id-s in the target document. That
> could be used, but I am not sure it is an ideal solution from an
> accessibility perspective.
>
> Ivan
>
> [1] https://www.w3.org/TR/selectors-states/
> [2] https://www.w3.org/TR/wpub-ann/
>
>
> On 16 Mar 2018, at 16:06, White, Jason J <jjwhite@ets.org> wrote:
>
> As a side question, in contexts where there is no parallel print edition
> (e.g., the work is entirely EPUB) are there emerging conventions for citing
> portions of the work below the chapter or section level?
>
> One solution that I am familiar with is sometimes used in case law (where
> the court publishes an electronic version prior to the printing of a law
> report). They typically provide, and cite, paragraph numbers instead of
> page numbers. I suspect that this practice is fine so far as accessibility
> is concerned, although there might be grounds for having the ability to
> hide the paragraph numbers temporarily.
>
> One can also use hyperlinks with fragment identifiers, but links are
> cumbersome as textual citations.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: deborah.kaplan@suberic.net <deborah.kaplan@suberic.net>
> Sent: Friday, March 16, 2018 10:15 AM
> To: AUDRAIN LUC <LAUDRAIN@hachette-livre.fr>
> Cc: Rachel Comerford <rachel.comerford@macmillan.com>; Avneesh Singh
> <avneesh.sg@gmail.com>; PubWG <public-publ-wg@w3.org>
> Subject: Re: Some important insights for getting EPUB 3 adopted in higher
> education
>
> Agreed completely with this absolute necessity for the ability to navigate
> by and
> discover the parallel print page numbers. Can we come up with some common
> terminology to talk about this? I've often found that I get confused in
> conversations about "pagination," because people  using the term from the
> more CSS/web-based/technical end of things mean "pagination" to mean
> "permitting a non-scrolling interface," whereas some people coming from the
> accessible publishing end of things mean this particular issue about print
> pages.
> Is there a sink term we can all agree upon, which is not just using the
> EPUB
> specification technical term, to mean "page numbers of the print
> rendition"?
>
> it's a twofold issue, as well: readers need to be able to navigate to what
> would
> be page 37 in the print rendition, but they also need to be able to say "I
> am on
> print page 37 right now."
>
> Deborah
>
> Avneesh and others said:
>
> In order for a student with disability to have equal access in terms
> of alternate media, they must be able to follow along with reading
> assignments according to the same syllabus given to other students, and
> able
>
> to follow along with in-class discussions in which the instructor and other
> students are likely to refer to readings by the page numbers in the
> original book.
> An EPUB file or reading system that lacks navigation by original print page
> numbers does not allow for this active participation without a significant
> expense of extra effort on the part of the student with disability.
>
>
>
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> ----
> Ivan Herman, W3C
> Publishing@W3C Technical Lead
> Home: http://www.w3.org/People/Ivan/
> mobile: +31-641044153 <+31%206%2041044153>
> ORCID ID: https://orcid.org/0000-0003-0782-2704
>
>
Received on Friday, 16 March 2018 16:32:44 UTC

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