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Re: Some important insights for getting EPUB 3 adopted in higher education

From: Bill Kasdorf <kasdorf.bill@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2018 12:33:38 -0400
Message-ID: <CALhciFjJeHimY0krjzdYSHUeF9HB6=21cJySaeXfUYsRCkC6fQ@mail.gmail.com>
To: Ivan Herman <ivan@w3.org>
Cc: "White, Jason J" <jjwhite@ets.org>, Deborah Kaplan <deborah.kaplan@suberic.net>, Luc Audrain <LAUDRAIN@hachette-livre.fr>, Rachel Comerford <rachel.comerford@macmillan.com>, Avneesh Singh <avneesh.sg@gmail.com>, W3C Publishing Working Group <public-publ-wg@w3.org>
Sorry, I keep forgetting that now that I've switched to Gmail my sig gets
put on every reply but I don't see it when I'm writing my reply. I'll try
to fix that, as I just did with this reply.


On Fri, Mar 16, 2018 at 12:32 PM, Bill Kasdorf <kasdorf.bill@gmail.com>
wrote:

> As for Deborah's terminology issues, I always try to refer either to
> "dynamic pagination" or "pre-paginated," and specifically to say "print
> page numbers" not just "page numbers" when that's what's meant.
>
> Jason is right, in legal, and reference content in general, it is
> typical--in fact almost universal--that there are hierarchical section
> numbers used to designate structural components and these are what are
> cited. We don't have the benefit of those in other types of content.
>
> And to pick up on Luc's comment, when doing modeling for clients I always
> include specs for pagebreak markers, and the prepress/conversion vendor I
> used to work for, Apex, has put pagebreak markers in EPUBs they convert
> from PDFs or create out of a hybrid PDF/EPUB workflow routinely for years.
> It's a little extra effort but it is not rocket science. The PShift system
> we developed for the University of Toronto Press and their clients does
> this in a highly automated way. This is not a commercial; I no longer work
> for Apex. The point is that this does not need to be as big a complication
> as people think it is.
>
> *Bill Kasdorf*
> *Principal, Kasdorf & Associates, LLC*
> kasdorf.bill@gmail.com
> +1 734-904-6252 <(734)%20904-6252>
>
> ISNI: http://isni.org/isni/0000000116490786
> ORCiD: https://orcid.org/0000-0001-7002-4786
> <https://orcid.org/0000-0001-7002-4786?lang=en>
>
>
> On Fri, Mar 16, 2018 at 11:11 AM, Ivan Herman <ivan@w3.org> wrote:
>
>> The reason why the Annotation WG has developed the selector methods
>> (which we have started to take over for WP) is to provide "links" into
>> texts without the necessity to have fragment id-s in the target document.
>> That could be used, but I am not sure it is an ideal solution from an
>> accessibility perspective.
>>
>> Ivan
>>
>> [1] https://www.w3.org/TR/selectors-states/
>> [2] https://www.w3.org/TR/wpub-ann/
>>
>>
>> On 16 Mar 2018, at 16:06, White, Jason J <jjwhite@ets.org> wrote:
>>
>> As a side question, in contexts where there is no parallel print edition
>> (e.g., the work is entirely EPUB) are there emerging conventions for citing
>> portions of the work below the chapter or section level?
>>
>> One solution that I am familiar with is sometimes used in case law (where
>> the court publishes an electronic version prior to the printing of a law
>> report). They typically provide, and cite, paragraph numbers instead of
>> page numbers. I suspect that this practice is fine so far as accessibility
>> is concerned, although there might be grounds for having the ability to
>> hide the paragraph numbers temporarily.
>>
>> One can also use hyperlinks with fragment identifiers, but links are
>> cumbersome as textual citations.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: deborah.kaplan@suberic.net <deborah.kaplan@suberic.net>
>> Sent: Friday, March 16, 2018 10:15 AM
>> To: AUDRAIN LUC <LAUDRAIN@hachette-livre.fr>
>> Cc: Rachel Comerford <rachel.comerford@macmillan.com>; Avneesh Singh
>> <avneesh.sg@gmail.com>; PubWG <public-publ-wg@w3.org>
>> Subject: Re: Some important insights for getting EPUB 3 adopted in higher
>> education
>>
>> Agreed completely with this absolute necessity for the ability to
>> navigate by and
>> discover the parallel print page numbers. Can we come up with some common
>> terminology to talk about this? I've often found that I get confused in
>> conversations about "pagination," because people  using the term from the
>> more CSS/web-based/technical end of things mean "pagination" to mean
>> "permitting a non-scrolling interface," whereas some people coming from
>> the
>> accessible publishing end of things mean this particular issue about
>> print pages.
>> Is there a sink term we can all agree upon, which is not just using the
>> EPUB
>> specification technical term, to mean "page numbers of the print
>> rendition"?
>>
>> it's a twofold issue, as well: readers need to be able to navigate to
>> what would
>> be page 37 in the print rendition, but they also need to be able to say
>> "I am on
>> print page 37 right now."
>>
>> Deborah
>>
>> Avneesh and others said:
>>
>> In order for a student with disability to have equal access in terms
>> of alternate media, they must be able to follow along with reading
>> assignments according to the same syllabus given to other students, and
>> able
>>
>> to follow along with in-class discussions in which the instructor and
>> other
>> students are likely to refer to readings by the page numbers in the
>> original book.
>> An EPUB file or reading system that lacks navigation by original print
>> page
>> numbers does not allow for this active participation without a significant
>> expense of extra effort on the part of the student with disability.
>>
>>
>>
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>>
>> ----
>> Ivan Herman, W3C
>> Publishing@W3C Technical Lead
>> Home: http://www.w3.org/People/Ivan/
>> mobile: +31-641044153 <+31%206%2041044153>
>> ORCID ID: https://orcid.org/0000-0003-0782-2704
>>
>>
>
Received on Friday, 16 March 2018 16:34:03 UTC

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