W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > public-prov-wg@w3.org > April 2012

Re: PROV-ISSUE-357 (author-in-quotation): author in definition of quotation [prov-dm]

From: Timothy Lebo <lebot@rpi.edu>
Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2012 09:47:55 -0400
Cc: Luc Moreau <L.Moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk>, Stephan Zednik <zednis@rpi.edu>, ProvenanceWorking Group <public-prov-wg@w3.org>
Message-Id: <5A1BB5D8-496D-4471-B52C-9411B43B0AB9@rpi.edu>
To: Paul Groth <p.t.groth@vu.nl>

On Apr 20, 2012, at 9:42 AM, Paul Groth wrote:

> So are we saying:
> 
> "A quotation is the repeat of (some or all of) an entity, such as text
> or image,
> by an agent"
> 
> I'm fine with that.

It seems ambiguous. What did the agent do in the definition above? quote or be quoted?

I'd still prefer Luc's previous (and not clutter it by involving 'agent' in the definition)

> A quotation is the repeat of (some or all of) an entity, such as text or image, 
> by someone who may or may not be its original author.


besides, isn't it already covered?

quoterAgent: an optional identifier (ag2) for the agent who performs the quote;
originalAgent: an optional identifier (ag1) for the agent to whom the original entity is attributed;


-Tim


> 
> Paul
> 
> On Fri, Apr 20, 2012 at 3:37 PM, Stephan Zednik <zednis@rpi.edu> wrote:
>> So "by an agent"?  I have no preference on the matter myself.
>> 
>> --Stephan
>> 
>> On Apr 20, 2012, at 7:29 AM, Luc Moreau <L.Moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk> wrote:
>> 
>> And a further point: why 'someone' in this definition? Always a Person?
>> Can't running software perform quotation?
>> 
>> Professor Luc Moreau
>> Electronics and Computer Science
>> University of Southampton
>> Southampton SO17 1BJ
>> United Kingdom
>> 
>> On 20 Apr 2012, at 14:13, "Stephan Zednik" <zednis@rpi.edu> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Apr 20, 2012, at 6:58 AM, Luc Moreau <L.Moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk> wrote:
>> 
>> I believe the definition is not enforceable/verifiable practically.
>> 
>> In the spirit of simplification I suggest we allow for self-quotation.  The
>> definition should be :
>> 
>> A quotation is the repeat of (some or all of) an entity, such as text or
>> image,
>> by someone who may or may not be its original author.
>> 
>> 
>> In that case, couldn't we just shorten this to "by someone"?
>> 
>> --Stephan
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Professor Luc Moreau
>> Electronics and Computer Science
>> University of Southampton
>> Southampton SO17 1BJ
>> United Kingdom
>> 
>> On 20 Apr 2012, at 13:32, "Timothy Lebo" <lebot@rpi.edu> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> On Apr 20, 2012, at 5:53 AM, Paul Groth wrote:
>> 
>> I think it's hard to come-up with validity rules. In terms of being
>> 
>> from another author... I'm sure people will "quote themselves" but I
>> 
>> think that's a perfectly fine breakage of the normal definition of
>> 
>> quotation.
>> 
>> 
>> +1
>> 
>> The "other author" can be prov:alternateOf the quoting agent :-)
>> You're quoting yourself which was in a different context.
>> 
>> I don't see a need to try to enforce distinctness.
>> 
>> -Tim
>> 
>> 
>> Paul
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Fri, Apr 20, 2012 at 11:42 AM, Luc Moreau <L.Moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk>
>> wrote:
>> 
>> Ok, but how can we enforce it? What does it mean to be "other" in a PROV
>> context?
>> 
>> Do we need validity rules?
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Professor Luc Moreau
>> 
>> Electronics and Computer Science
>> 
>> University of Southampton
>> 
>> Southampton SO17 1BJ
>> 
>> United Kingdom
>> 
>> 
>> On 20 Apr 2012, at 09:06, "Paul Groth" <p.t.groth@vu.nl> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> Hi Luc,
>> 
>> 
>> Err.. I took the definition of quotation directly from the dictionary :-)
>> 
>> 
>> So you'd have to argue with them.
>> 
>> 
>> cheers
>> 
>> Paul
>> 
>> 
>> On Fri, Apr 20, 2012 at 9:03 AM, Provenance Working Group Issue
>> 
>> Tracker <sysbot+tracker@w3.org> wrote:
>> 
>> PROV-ISSUE-357 (author-in-quotation): author in definition of quotation
>> [prov-dm]
>> 
>> 
>> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/issues/357
>> 
>> 
>> Raised by: Luc Moreau
>> 
>> On product: prov-dm
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> The definition of Quotation [1] is:
>> 
>> 
>> A quotation is the repeat of (some or all of) an entity, such as text or
>> image, by someone other than its original author.
>> 
>> 
>> Do we really mean that I wouldn't be entitled to quote myself?    If it's
>> the case, what does it mean to be "someone other than the original author"?
>> are alternates OK?
>> 
>> 
>> http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/prov/raw-file/default/model/prov-dm.html#concept-quotation
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> 
>> --
>> 
>> Dr. Paul Groth (p.t.groth@vu.nl)
>> 
>> http://www.few.vu.nl/~pgroth/
>> 
>> Assistant Professor
>> 
>> Knowledge Representation & Reasoning Group
>> 
>> Artificial Intelligence Section
>> 
>> Department of Computer Science
>> 
>> VU University Amsterdam
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> 
>> --
>> 
>> Dr. Paul Groth (p.t.groth@vu.nl)
>> 
>> http://www.few.vu.nl/~pgroth/
>> 
>> Assistant Professor
>> 
>> Knowledge Representation & Reasoning Group
>> 
>> Artificial Intelligence Section
>> 
>> Department of Computer Science
>> 
>> VU University Amsterdam
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> --
> Dr. Paul Groth (p.t.groth@vu.nl)
> http://www.few.vu.nl/~pgroth/
> Assistant Professor
> Knowledge Representation & Reasoning Group
> Artificial Intelligence Section
> Department of Computer Science
> VU University Amsterdam
> 
> 
Received on Friday, 20 April 2012 13:49:42 GMT

This archive was generated by hypermail 2.2.0+W3C-0.50 : Thursday, 26 April 2012 13:07:03 GMT