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Re: PROV-ISSUE-357 (author-in-quotation): author in definition of quotation [prov-dm]

From: Paul Groth <p.t.groth@vu.nl>
Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2012 15:57:03 +0200
Message-ID: <CAJCyKRqbmT5jNAQ7KZqe=shOJ_Y-etc3D7Cnnzawd-5Oo3AA_A@mail.gmail.com>
To: Timothy Lebo <lebot@rpi.edu>
Cc: Luc Moreau <L.Moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk>, Stephan Zednik <zednis@rpi.edu>, ProvenanceWorking Group <public-prov-wg@w3.org>
I'm fine with that as well

Paul

On Fri, Apr 20, 2012 at 3:47 PM, Timothy Lebo <lebot@rpi.edu> wrote:
>
> On Apr 20, 2012, at 9:42 AM, Paul Groth wrote:
>
> So are we saying:
>
> "A quotation is the repeat of (some or all of) an entity, such as text
> or image,
> by an agent"
>
> I'm fine with that.
>
>
> It seems ambiguous. What did the agent do in the definition above? quote or
> be quoted?
>
> I'd still prefer Luc's previous (and not clutter it by involving 'agent' in
> the definition)
>
> A quotation is the repeat of (some or all of) an entity, such as text or
> image,
> by someone who may or may not be its original author.
>
>
>
> besides, isn't it already covered?
>
> quoterAgent: an optional identifier (ag2) for the agent who performs the
> quote;
> originalAgent: an optional identifier (ag1) for the agent to whom the
> original entity is attributed;
>
>
> -Tim
>
>
>
> Paul
>
> On Fri, Apr 20, 2012 at 3:37 PM, Stephan Zednik <zednis@rpi.edu> wrote:
>
> So "by an agent"?  I have no preference on the matter myself.
>
>
> --Stephan
>
>
> On Apr 20, 2012, at 7:29 AM, Luc Moreau <L.Moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk> wrote:
>
>
> And a further point: why 'someone' in this definition? Always a Person?
>
> Can't running software perform quotation?
>
>
> Professor Luc Moreau
>
> Electronics and Computer Science
>
> University of Southampton
>
> Southampton SO17 1BJ
>
> United Kingdom
>
>
> On 20 Apr 2012, at 14:13, "Stephan Zednik" <zednis@rpi.edu> wrote:
>
>
>
>
> On Apr 20, 2012, at 6:58 AM, Luc Moreau <L.Moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk> wrote:
>
>
> I believe the definition is not enforceable/verifiable practically.
>
>
> In the spirit of simplification I suggest we allow for self-quotation.  The
>
> definition should be :
>
>
> A quotation is the repeat of (some or all of) an entity, such as text or
>
> image,
>
> by someone who may or may not be its original author.
>
>
>
> In that case, couldn't we just shorten this to "by someone"?
>
>
> --Stephan
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Professor Luc Moreau
>
> Electronics and Computer Science
>
> University of Southampton
>
> Southampton SO17 1BJ
>
> United Kingdom
>
>
> On 20 Apr 2012, at 13:32, "Timothy Lebo" <lebot@rpi.edu> wrote:
>
>
>
> On Apr 20, 2012, at 5:53 AM, Paul Groth wrote:
>
>
> I think it's hard to come-up with validity rules. In terms of being
>
>
> from another author... I'm sure people will "quote themselves" but I
>
>
> think that's a perfectly fine breakage of the normal definition of
>
>
> quotation.
>
>
>
> +1
>
>
> The "other author" can be prov:alternateOf the quoting agent :-)
>
> You're quoting yourself which was in a different context.
>
>
> I don't see a need to try to enforce distinctness.
>
>
> -Tim
>
>
>
> Paul
>
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, Apr 20, 2012 at 11:42 AM, Luc Moreau <L.Moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk>
>
> wrote:
>
>
> Ok, but how can we enforce it? What does it mean to be "other" in a PROV
>
> context?
>
>
> Do we need validity rules?
>
>
>
>
> Professor Luc Moreau
>
>
> Electronics and Computer Science
>
>
> University of Southampton
>
>
> Southampton SO17 1BJ
>
>
> United Kingdom
>
>
>
> On 20 Apr 2012, at 09:06, "Paul Groth" <p.t.groth@vu.nl> wrote:
>
>
>
> Hi Luc,
>
>
>
> Err.. I took the definition of quotation directly from the dictionary :-)
>
>
>
> So you'd have to argue with them.
>
>
>
> cheers
>
>
> Paul
>
>
>
> On Fri, Apr 20, 2012 at 9:03 AM, Provenance Working Group Issue
>
>
> Tracker <sysbot+tracker@w3.org> wrote:
>
>
> PROV-ISSUE-357 (author-in-quotation): author in definition of quotation
>
> [prov-dm]
>
>
>
> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/issues/357
>
>
>
> Raised by: Luc Moreau
>
>
> On product: prov-dm
>
>
>
>
> The definition of Quotation [1] is:
>
>
>
> A quotation is the repeat of (some or all of) an entity, such as text or
>
> image, by someone other than its original author.
>
>
>
> Do we really mean that I wouldn't be entitled to quote myself?    If it's
>
> the case, what does it mean to be "someone other than the original author"?
>
> are alternates OK?
>
>
>
> http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/prov/raw-file/default/model/prov-dm.html#concept-quotation
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
>
> --
>
>
> Dr. Paul Groth (p.t.groth@vu.nl)
>
>
> http://www.few.vu.nl/~pgroth/
>
>
> Assistant Professor
>
>
> Knowledge Representation & Reasoning Group
>
>
> Artificial Intelligence Section
>
>
> Department of Computer Science
>
>
> VU University Amsterdam
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
>
> --
>
>
> Dr. Paul Groth (p.t.groth@vu.nl)
>
>
> http://www.few.vu.nl/~pgroth/
>
>
> Assistant Professor
>
>
> Knowledge Representation & Reasoning Group
>
>
> Artificial Intelligence Section
>
>
> Department of Computer Science
>
>
> VU University Amsterdam
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> --
> Dr. Paul Groth (p.t.groth@vu.nl)
> http://www.few.vu.nl/~pgroth/
> Assistant Professor
> Knowledge Representation & Reasoning Group
> Artificial Intelligence Section
> Department of Computer Science
> VU University Amsterdam
>
>
>



-- 
--
Dr. Paul Groth (p.t.groth@vu.nl)
http://www.few.vu.nl/~pgroth/
Assistant Professor
Knowledge Representation & Reasoning Group
Artificial Intelligence Section
Department of Computer Science
VU University Amsterdam
Received on Friday, 20 April 2012 13:57:37 GMT

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