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Re: PROV-ISSUE-357 (author-in-quotation): author in definition of quotation [prov-dm]

From: Paul Groth <p.t.groth@vu.nl>
Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2012 15:42:42 +0200
Message-ID: <CAJCyKRrpcBCrGJwR1b1EPthGWsRu3NnxHKcWiOqq8ij92B7t3w@mail.gmail.com>
To: Luc Moreau <L.Moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk>
Cc: Timothy Lebo <lebot@rpi.edu>, Stephan Zednik <zednis@rpi.edu>, ProvenanceWorking Group <public-prov-wg@w3.org>
So are we saying:

"A quotation is the repeat of (some or all of) an entity, such as text
or image,
by an agent"

I'm fine with that.

Paul

On Fri, Apr 20, 2012 at 3:37 PM, Stephan Zednik <zednis@rpi.edu> wrote:
> So "by an agent"?  I have no preference on the matter myself.
>
> --Stephan
>
> On Apr 20, 2012, at 7:29 AM, Luc Moreau <L.Moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk> wrote:
>
> And a further point: why 'someone' in this definition? Always a Person?
> Can't running software perform quotation?
>
> Professor Luc Moreau
> Electronics and Computer Science
> University of Southampton
> Southampton SO17 1BJ
> United Kingdom
>
> On 20 Apr 2012, at 14:13, "Stephan Zednik" <zednis@rpi.edu> wrote:
>
>
>
> On Apr 20, 2012, at 6:58 AM, Luc Moreau <L.Moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk> wrote:
>
> I believe the definition is not enforceable/verifiable practically.
>
> In the spirit of simplification I suggest we allow for self-quotation.  The
> definition should be :
>
> A quotation is the repeat of (some or all of) an entity, such as text or
> image,
> by someone who may or may not be its original author.
>
>
> In that case, couldn't we just shorten this to "by someone"?
>
> --Stephan
>
>
>
>
>
> Professor Luc Moreau
> Electronics and Computer Science
> University of Southampton
> Southampton SO17 1BJ
> United Kingdom
>
> On 20 Apr 2012, at 13:32, "Timothy Lebo" <lebot@rpi.edu> wrote:
>
>
> On Apr 20, 2012, at 5:53 AM, Paul Groth wrote:
>
> I think it's hard to come-up with validity rules. In terms of being
>
> from another author... I'm sure people will "quote themselves" but I
>
> think that's a perfectly fine breakage of the normal definition of
>
> quotation.
>
>
> +1
>
> The "other author" can be prov:alternateOf the quoting agent :-)
> You're quoting yourself which was in a different context.
>
> I don't see a need to try to enforce distinctness.
>
> -Tim
>
>
> Paul
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, Apr 20, 2012 at 11:42 AM, Luc Moreau <L.Moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk>
> wrote:
>
> Ok, but how can we enforce it? What does it mean to be "other" in a PROV
> context?
>
> Do we need validity rules?
>
>
>
> Professor Luc Moreau
>
> Electronics and Computer Science
>
> University of Southampton
>
> Southampton SO17 1BJ
>
> United Kingdom
>
>
> On 20 Apr 2012, at 09:06, "Paul Groth" <p.t.groth@vu.nl> wrote:
>
>
> Hi Luc,
>
>
> Err.. I took the definition of quotation directly from the dictionary :-)
>
>
> So you'd have to argue with them.
>
>
> cheers
>
> Paul
>
>
> On Fri, Apr 20, 2012 at 9:03 AM, Provenance Working Group Issue
>
> Tracker <sysbot+tracker@w3.org> wrote:
>
> PROV-ISSUE-357 (author-in-quotation): author in definition of quotation
> [prov-dm]
>
>
> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/issues/357
>
>
> Raised by: Luc Moreau
>
> On product: prov-dm
>
>
>
> The definition of Quotation [1] is:
>
>
> A quotation is the repeat of (some or all of) an entity, such as text or
> image, by someone other than its original author.
>
>
> Do we really mean that I wouldn't be entitled to quote myself?    If it's
> the case, what does it mean to be "someone other than the original author"?
> are alternates OK?
>
>
> http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/prov/raw-file/default/model/prov-dm.html#concept-quotation
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> --
>
> Dr. Paul Groth (p.t.groth@vu.nl)
>
> http://www.few.vu.nl/~pgroth/
>
> Assistant Professor
>
> Knowledge Representation & Reasoning Group
>
> Artificial Intelligence Section
>
> Department of Computer Science
>
> VU University Amsterdam
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> --
>
> Dr. Paul Groth (p.t.groth@vu.nl)
>
> http://www.few.vu.nl/~pgroth/
>
> Assistant Professor
>
> Knowledge Representation & Reasoning Group
>
> Artificial Intelligence Section
>
> Department of Computer Science
>
> VU University Amsterdam
>
>
>
>



-- 
--
Dr. Paul Groth (p.t.groth@vu.nl)
http://www.few.vu.nl/~pgroth/
Assistant Professor
Knowledge Representation & Reasoning Group
Artificial Intelligence Section
Department of Computer Science
VU University Amsterdam
Received on Friday, 20 April 2012 13:43:15 GMT

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