W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > public-prov-wg@w3.org > July 2011

Re: PROV-ISSUE-30 (name-for-bob): What name do we use for the BOB construct? [Conceptual Model]

From: Luc Moreau <L.Moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk>
Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2011 11:23:55 +0100
Message-ID: <EMEW3|835aa0beb1a68937dbddfb7cc35f96fan6OBO108L.Moreau|ecs.soton.ac.uk|4E2D443B.7070303@ecs.soton.ac.uk>
To: Khalid Belhajjame <Khalid.Belhajjame@cs.man.ac.uk>
CC: Paul Groth <p.t.groth@vu.nl>, "public-prov-wg@w3.org" <public-prov-wg@w3.org>
Of course, it suffers from the same problem: it is perspective OF/ON an 
entity.

The point, as far as I understand it, is that there is no other way to 
refer to entities. BOBs
are the construct by which we represent entities, their situation in the 
world, their characterization.

Luc


On 07/25/2011 11:14 AM, Khalid Belhajjame wrote:
>
> Yes, to me that is a good alternative.
>
> khalid
>
> On 25/07/2011 11:10, Luc Moreau wrote:
>> Why not 'perspective' then?
>>
>> Luc
>>
>> On 07/25/2011 11:07 AM, Khalid Belhajjame wrote:
>>> On 25/07/2011 10:24, Luc Moreau wrote:
>>>>
>>>> The problem with Snapshot (like state, etc), is that it is the 
>>>> snapshot of an entity.
>>>> We just don't want to distinguish an entity from its state, or an 
>>>> entity from its snapshot.
>>>
>>> On the other hand, Snapshot has the advantage of conveying the fact 
>>> that it is a description from a certain perspective (view).
>>>
>>> khalid
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hence, using Entity avoids this problem.
>>>>
>>>> Luc
>>>>
>>>> On 07/25/2011 10:19 AM, Paul Groth wrote:
>>>>> I thought we were getting somewhere with snapshot.....
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't think ENTITY really captures the intuition behind a BOB. 
>>>>> It's too general.
>>>>>
>>>>> thanks,
>>>>> Paul
>>>>>
>>>>> Luc Moreau wrote:
>>>>>> The word 'Entity' should also be considered for the construct BOB.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If we do so, the text 'characterized entity' should be replaced by
>>>>>> something else in the draft specification.
>>>>>> Why not 'thing'?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So, the text could become:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>    Section 4.
>>>>>>    In the world (whether real or not), there are things, which 
>>>>>> can be
>>>>>> physical, digital, conceptual, or otherwise, and activities 
>>>>>> involving
>>>>>> things.
>>>>>>    Words such as thing or activity should be understood with their
>>>>>> informal meaning.
>>>>>>    This specification is concerned with characterized things, 
>>>>>> that is,
>>>>>> things and their situation in the world, as perceived by the 
>>>>>> asserter.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>    Section 5.1
>>>>>>    An ENTITY represents an identifiable characterized thing.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Luc
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 07/24/2011 11:43 PM, Reza B'Far wrote:
>>>>>>> First, for the record Khalid was the person suggesting Snapshot :)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The way I've seen snapshot used commercially, it's fairly 
>>>>>>> consistent
>>>>>>> with the current definition of BOB.  There is some murkiness on 
>>>>>>> both
>>>>>>> sides (how "snapshot" is used commercially and I think we're still
>>>>>>> iterating here on the definition of BOB, but may be that's close 
>>>>>>> to be
>>>>>>> finalized).  However, I think they are close enough.  What I liked
>>>>>>> about "Snapshot" is that its intuitive and is used in several 
>>>>>>> domains
>>>>>>> that I know of (content management, legal, configuration 
>>>>>>> systems, and
>>>>>>> I've also seen use-cases in microfilm production by old-school
>>>>>>> librarians).  Also, I think "Snapshot" offers a huge advantage that
>>>>>>> it's neither explicitly linked to the entity nor its state.  And I
>>>>>>> know the distinction between entity vs. entity's state and how 
>>>>>>> that's
>>>>>>> articulated has been in a lot of the discussions.  Using "Snapshot"
>>>>>>> sort of obsoletes that discussion.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 7/24/11 12:57 PM, Stephan Zednik wrote:
>>>>>>>> I am not partial to snapshot, partially because of the extensive
>>>>>>>> functional usage of the term.  I have always associated a snapshot
>>>>>>>> with a point in time, not a duration - but this may be an 
>>>>>>>> incorrect
>>>>>>>> association.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I am open to discussing it, but my initial inclination was 
>>>>>>>> negative
>>>>>>>> towards it.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Will we use the same definition as we have been using for BOB?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --Stephan
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Jul 24, 2011, at 9:52 AM, "Reza 
>>>>>>>> B'Far"<reza.bfar@oracle.com>   wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I second the term "Snapshot".  This term also has functional 
>>>>>>>>> usage
>>>>>>>>> in several commercial application categories used within 
>>>>>>>>> roughly the
>>>>>>>>> same meaning.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 7/24/11 3:45 AM, Khalid Belhajjame wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Hi Stephan,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Given the example you gave in your previous email, I think that
>>>>>>>>>> "EntitySpanshot" or "Snapshot" should be fine, given that it
>>>>>>>>>> reflect the fact that it is a description of an entity that 
>>>>>>>>>> holds
>>>>>>>>>> for some period of time.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Do you agree?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> khalid
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 23/07/2011 20:24, Stephan Zednik wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> I do not feel that EntityInstance, EntityInstantiation, or
>>>>>>>>>>> InstantiatedEntity make sense for the book ownership 
>>>>>>>>>>> scenario, or
>>>>>>>>>>> any scenario modeling the provenance of changes in 
>>>>>>>>>>> characteristics
>>>>>>>>>>> of a physical object.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> To reiterate the example since I haven't committed it to a wiki
>>>>>>>>>>> page yet.  Book X is an entity that represents a real world
>>>>>>>>>>> object.  It can be put on a shelf, loaned to friends, damaged,
>>>>>>>>>>> and/or destroyed.  It has important characteristics (condition,
>>>>>>>>>>> ownership, location, etc) that may change over the life of the
>>>>>>>>>>> book.  We may want to represent the provenance of the book as a
>>>>>>>>>>> chain of ownership.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> |<----------------------------------------------------- Book X
>>>>>>>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------->| 
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> |<!------ Book X with owner A ---->|<----Book X with owner B
>>>>>>>>>>> ---->|<---- Book X with owner A --------->|
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> If a book changes ownership, is the "book with changed 
>>>>>>>>>>> ownership"
>>>>>>>>>>> a different EntityInstance?  A different InstantiatedEntity?  I
>>>>>>>>>>> don't think what we current call a BOB is an 'instance of'
>>>>>>>>>>> anything.  I think of it as a description of an entity that 
>>>>>>>>>>> holds
>>>>>>>>>>> for some time period (not necessarily given) for which
>>>>>>>>>>> contextually important mutable characteristics of the the 
>>>>>>>>>>> entity
>>>>>>>>>>> are held to be known.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> --Stephan
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On 7/22/2011 5:29 AM, Curt Tilmes wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 07/22/2011 03:43 AM, Khalid Belhajjame wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> The term "Snapshot" was suggested some time ago, and it 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> seems that
>>>>>>>>>>>>> several people did like it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> We can also use the term "EntitySnapshot".
>>>>>>>>>>>> Following from snapshot:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> EntityInstance
>>>>>>>>>>>> EntityInstantiation
>>>>>>>>>>>> InstantiatedEntity
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Curt
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>

-- 
Professor Luc Moreau
Electronics and Computer Science   tel:   +44 23 8059 4487
University of Southampton          fax:   +44 23 8059 2865
Southampton SO17 1BJ               email: l.moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk
United Kingdom                     http://www.ecs.soton.ac.uk/~lavm
Received on Monday, 25 July 2011 10:24:33 GMT

This archive was generated by hypermail 2.2.0+W3C-0.50 : Thursday, 26 April 2012 13:06:37 GMT