Re: ARIA Minutes for 2 July

Excuse me for chiming up now, but why are you considering deprecating
role=presentation?

* katie *

Katie Haritos-Shea @ GMAIL
On Jul 2, 2015 2:09 PM, "Janina Sajka" <janina@rednote.net> wrote:

> Minutes from the ARIA Task Force teleconference of 2 July are provided
> below
> as text, and are available as hypertext at:
>
> http://www.w3.org/2015/07/02-aria-minutes.html
>
>    W3C
>
>                                                            - DRAFT -
>
>                                        Protocols and Formats Working Group
> Teleconference
>
> 02 Jul 2015
>
>    See also: IRC log
>
> Attendees
>
>    Present
>           Janina, Joseph_Scheuhammer, Rich_Schwerdtfeger, Joanie_Diggs,
> STefan_Schnabel, MichaelC, Bryan, Bryan_Garaventa,
>           JamesN
>
>    Regrets
>    Chair
>           Rich
>
>    Scribe
>           janina
>
> Contents
>
>      * Topics
>          1. Action 1493 and 1606 Joseph Scheumammer
>          2. Switch Role ...
>          3. Action-1417
>          4. issue-717?
>          5. ssue 683, 689, 655, 670 Make aria-level a required attribute
> for
>          6. aria-uinvalid issue-651
>      * Summary of Action Items
>
>  __________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
>
>    <trackbot> Date: 02 July 2015
>
>    <richardschwerdtfeger> Meeting: W3C WAI-PF ARIA Caucus
>
>    <richardschwerdtfeger>
> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pfwg/2015Jul/0016.html
>
>    <scribe> scribe: janina
>
> Action 1493 and 1606 Joseph Scheumammer
>
>    <clown>
> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pfwg/2015Jun/0181.html
>
>    action-1493?
>
>    <trackbot> action-1493 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to Propose spec text
> allowing šimplicit value for roleš to provide default
>    values for required properties -- due 2014-10-06 -- OPEN
>
>    <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1493
>
>    rs: I see no issues with your text, Joseph
>
>    js: I was asked to add to Sec 7.6 attrib processing
>    ... Discussed Mar 26
>    ... Aslo what to do for default values
>    ... Email for review out Monday
>
>    <richardschwerdtfeger>
> https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/ACTION-1493/aria/aria.html#state_property_processing
>
>    js: Only one response
>
>    rs: Anyone not looked at this? Please do so now
>    ... Any objections?
>
>    RESOLUTION: Adopt Joseph's proposal for Action-1493
>
>    rs: Did you change other things, too? Slider?
>
>    js: ARIA- values are required on sliders, spin button ...
>
>    <clown> https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/ACTION-1493/aria/aria.html#slider
>
>    js: summarizes changes ....
>
>    rs: Is there text in Core for this?
>
>    js: Will be fixing
>    ... Author Errors sec has values, but needs updating
>
>    <richardschwerdtfeger> ACTION: Joseph modify, scrollbar, spinbutton and
> Slider to update author error section for
>    default values [recorded in
> http://www.w3.org/2015/07/02-aria-minutes.html#action01]
>
>    <trackbot> Created ACTION-1670 - Modify, scrollbar, spinbutton and
> slider to update author error section for default
>    values [on Joseph Scheuhammer - due 2015-07-09].
>
>    <richardschwerdtfeger> Action-1670?
>
>    <trackbot> Action-1670 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to Modify, scrollbar,
> spinbutton and slider to update author error section
>    for default values -- due 2015-07-09 -- OPEN
>
>    <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1670
>
>    jn: What about infinitely scrollable?
>
>    js: Listed as required state --
>    ... This is already in ARIA-1.0
>
>    <richardschwerdtfeger> Action-1493?
>
>    <trackbot> Action-1493 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to Propose spec text
> allowing šimplicit value for roleš to provide default
>    values for required properties -- due 2014-10-06 -- OPEN
>
>    <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1493
>
>    <jamesn> ISSUE: need to allow scrollbars to specify an unknown value
> for aria-valuemax
>
>    <trackbot> Created ISSUE-718 - Need to allow scrollbars to specify an
> unknown value for aria-valuemax. Please complete
>    additional details at <
> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/718/edit>.
>
>    mc: Do we need Joanie to do the merge? What about Joseph?
>
>    js: Sure
>    ... Slight chance not by Monday
>
>    <jamesn> fyi I just updated issue-718 I just logged to ARIA 2.0
>
>    mc: If Monday, that's OK, but need to know if issue
>
>    <richardschwerdtfeger>
> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1606
>
>    RESOLUTION: Close Action-1606
>
>    js: Note new Issue 718
>
>    jd: Don't think it needs unknown max, just that the max keeps changing
>    ... But I always think desktop
>
>    jn: That may indeed be OK
>    ... And we simply need to document that
>
>    action-1591?
>
>    <trackbot> action-1591 -- Joanmarie Diggs to checkbox role doesn't list
> aria-readonly -- due 2015-03-04 --
>    PENDINGREVIEW
>
>    <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1591
>
>    <clown> action-1591?
>
>    <trackbot> action-1591 -- Joanmarie Diggs to checkbox role doesn't list
> aria-readonly -- due 2015-03-04 --
>    PENDINGREVIEW
>
>    <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1591
>
>    <clown>
> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pfwg/2015Jun/0177.html
>
>    jd: Believe I have this in a branch, but no responses
>
>    <richardschwerdtfeger>
> https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/action-1591/aria/aria.html#aria-readonly
>
>    jd: Believe I changed some inheritance
>
>    <clown> https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/action-1591/aria/aria.html#radio
>
>    rs: Looks fine. Any issues?
>
>    jd: Asking to re-consider inheritance ...
>
>    rs: Should be a separate Action
>
>    jd: Would think it useful for the heartbeat
>
>    rs: Won't have time to review
>    ... We need to review it separately. Can we tie to Action?
>
>    jd: Yes, will do
>
>    RESOLUTION: Action 1591 is complete
>
> Switch Role ...
>
>    jd: I believe Alex was asking for string substitution ...
>
>    rs: So, no resolution yet ...
>    ... Should state mixed value is invalid and will default to false
>    ... Then we flag in test tools
>    ... Current text says "not supported," but should say "invalid"
>
>    <richardschwerdtfeger> RESOLUTION:
>
>    <richardschwerdtfeger> Change this text:
>
>    <richardschwerdtfeger> The mixed value is not supported, and user
> agents MUST treat a mixed value as equivalent to
>    false for this role.
>
>    <richardschwerdtfeger> To:
>
>    <richardschwerdtfeger> The mixed value is invalid, and user agents MUST
> treat a mixed value as equivalent to false for
>    this role.
>
>    Action-1592?
>
>    <trackbot> Action-1592 -- Joanmarie Diggs to switch role shouldn't say
> about mixed value mapping. -- due 2015-03-04 --
>    OPEN
>
>    <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1592
>
>    Also has associated Issue
>
>    scribe note: Above ediscussion is on this action-1592
>
>    <richardschwerdtfeger> ACTION: Joseph address error handling in
> aria-checked with a value of “mixed† for a switch role
>    [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2015/07/02-aria-minutes.html#action02]
>
>    <trackbot> Created ACTION-1671 - Address error handling in aria-checked
> with a value of “mixed† for a switch role [on
>    Joseph Scheuhammer - due 2015-07-09].
>
>    rs: Anything with localized role description?
>
>    jd: Believe pending review
>
> Action-1417
>
>    RESOLUTION: Action-1417 is complete and also close Issue-636
>
>    issue-171?
>
>    <trackbot> issue-171 -- Menu discuss separator and group -- closed
>
>    <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/171
>
>    oops
>
>    <clown> issue=717
>
> issue-717?
>
>    issue-717?
>
>    <trackbot> issue-717 -- Should we deprecate aria-grabbed and
> aria-dropeffect? -- open
>
>    <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/717
>
>    <clown> issue-717
>
>    <trackbot> issue-717 -- Should we deprecate aria-grabbed and
> aria-dropeffect? -- open
>
>    <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/717
>
>    rs: Used for GWT
>    ... Should we deprecate?
>
>    js: Also Fluid, but only in demos
>    ... Also GPII ...
>
>    See new Issue-719
>
>    <richardschwerdtfeger> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/719
>
>    <clown> FYI:
> http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#ariaGrabbedTrue
>
>    jd: Shouldn't we also deprecate presentation role?
>
>    rs: Indeed!
>
>    <richardschwerdtfeger> ACTION: Michael Mark aria-grabbed,
> aria-dropeffect, and the presentation role as deprecated and
>    provide reference definition of derprecated [recorded in
> http://www.w3.org/2015/07/02-aria-minutes.html#action03]
>
>    <trackbot> Created ACTION-1672 - Mark aria-grabbed, aria-dropeffect,
> and the presentation role as deprecated and
>    provide reference definition of derprecated [on Michael Cooper - due
> 2015-07-09].
>
>    jn: Why deprecate presentation?
>    ... Are we ever dropping support for it?
>
>    <richardschwerdtfeger> action-1672?
>
>    <trackbot> action-1672 -- Michael Cooper to Mark aria-grabbed,
> aria-dropeffect, and the presentation role as deprecated
>    and provide reference definition of derprecated -- due 2015-07-09 --
> OPEN
>
>    <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1672
>
>    jn: Concern on retro support for none ... still advise presentation
>
>    General concern that "presentation" is far too widely used
>
>    mc: So, perhaps an issue to consider during 2.0?
>
>    <clown> issue-683
>
>    <trackbot> issue-683 -- The aria-level attribute is not required for
> role=heading within the spec, but should be. --
>    open
>
>    <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/683
>
> ssue 683, 689, 655, 670 Make aria-level a required attribute for
>
>    <richardschwerdtfeger> role="heading". Also discuss values of "auto"
> and "subsection".
>
>    rs: Not complete consensus, but ...
>
>    jn: Agree that's the consensus, even though I don't participate in it!
>
>    rs: auto and subsection values, would 2.0 be soone enough?
>
>    mc: Yes
>
>    RESOLUTION: ARIA-LEVEL is required for role=heading
>
>    <jnurthen> just for the minutes - I still disagree with this but accept
> the consensus opinion
>
>    rs: Proposing to add Issue for auto and subsection for 2.0
>
>    <Stefasn> I agree
>
>    <scribe> New issue-721
>
>    jd: Notes that we need default value -- consensus seemed to be thatit's
> "2"
>
>    rs: Can we live with that?
>
>    [no objection]
>
>    <richardschwerdtfeger> RESOLUTION: aria-level defaults to a value of
> “2† for role=“headingâ€
>
>    RESOLUTION: ARIA-Level defaults to value of 2 for role=heading
>
>    action-1657?
>
>    <trackbot> action-1657 -- Joanmarie Diggs to Make aria-level a required
> attribute for role=“heading† -- due 2015-06-25
>    -- OPEN
>
>    <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1657
>
>    rs: Updating the action
>
>    <richardschwerdtfeger> ACTION: Joseph modify the Core mapping spec. to
> handle the error condition of when aria-level is
>    not present for role “heading† and it defaults to “2† [recorded
> in
>    http://www.w3.org/2015/07/02-aria-minutes.html#action04]
>
>    <trackbot> Created ACTION-1673 - Modify the core mapping spec. to
> handle the error condition of when aria-level is not
>    present for role “heading† and it defaults to “2† [on Joseph
> Scheuhammer - due 2015-07-09].
>
> aria-uinvalid issue-651
>
>    issue-651?
>
>    <trackbot> issue-651 -- Allow aria-invalid to specify more types of
> errors including custom errors -- raised
>
>    <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/651
>
>    rs: need to treat error differently from help
>    ... also want to categorize importance
>    ... we could mark role=error and provide importance level ... one
> proposal
>
>    jd: don't believe this needs to be complicated
>    ... aria-invalid is currently string
>    ... require that author needs to localize whatever they put ...
>
>    rs: not a string
>
>    js: tokenized
>    ... value outsied of tokens mapps to "true"
>
>    <clown>
> http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#ariaInvalidUnknown
>
>    jd: I propose "pass it along," screen reader will speak it
>
>    js: 1.0 sayse "expose as given"
>    ... jc said can't do
>
>    rs: aren't we trying to overload this?
>    ... point is to show the actual message, whatever it is
>    ... so another relationship? another role?
>    ... could have importance levels
>    ... could be live region ... another approach
>
>    jd: like live
>    ... but still thinking
>
>    rs: live has polite, assertive, off. is that enough?
>    ... Thoughts?
>
>    <Stefasn> Don't mix things
>
>    js: cool with aria-error to point to it
>
>    rs: should they be live regions?
>
>    js: do they come and go?
>
>    rs: live not necessarily
>    ... option is to put a proposl on list for further consideration
>    ... certainly errors should be announced
>
>    jn: but not necessarily always
>
>    <clown> http://w3c.github.io/aria/aria/aria.html#aria-live
>
>    jd: Like the live region, but concerned how connected
>
>    rs: We're proposing an area where errors are presented, and this area
> is live region
>
>    <richardschwerdtfeger> ACTION: Rich Write proposal to the list for
> error message referencs to live region [recorded in
>    http://www.w3.org/2015/07/02-aria-minutes.html#action05]
>
>    <trackbot> Created ACTION-1674 - Write proposal to the list for error
> message referencs to live region [on Richard
>    Schwerdtfeger - due 2015-07-09].
>
> Summary of Action Items
>
>    [NEW] ACTION: Joseph address error handling in aria-checked with a
> value of “mixed† for a switch role [recorded in
>    http://www.w3.org/2015/07/02-aria-minutes.html#action02]
>    [NEW] ACTION: Joseph modify the Core mapping spec. to handle the error
> condition of when aria-level is not present for
>    role “heading† and it defaults to “2† [recorded in
> http://www.w3.org/2015/07/02-aria-minutes.html#action04]
>    [NEW] ACTION: Joseph modify, scrollbar, spinbutton and Slider to update
> author error section for default values
>    [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2015/07/02-aria-minutes.html#action01]
>    [NEW] ACTION: Michael Mark aria-grabbed, aria-dropeffect, and the
> presentation role as deprecated and provide reference
>    definition of derprecated [recorded in
> http://www.w3.org/2015/07/02-aria-minutes.html#action03]
>    [NEW] ACTION: Rich Write proposal to the list for error message
> referencs to live region [recorded in
>    http://www.w3.org/2015/07/02-aria-minutes.html#action05]
>
>    [End of minutes]
>
> Found Scribe: janina
> Present: Janina Joseph_Scheuhammer Rich_Schwerdtfeger Joanie_Diggs
> STefan_Schnabel MichaelC Bryan Bryan_Garaventa JamesN
> Found Date: 02 Jul 2015
> Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2015/07/02-aria-minutes.html
> People with action items: joseph michael modify proposal rich scrollbar
> slider spinbutton write
>
> --
>
> Janina Sajka,   Phone:  +1.443.300.2200
>                         sip:janina@asterisk.rednote.net
>                 Email:  janina@rednote.net
>
> Linux Foundation Fellow
> Executive Chair, Accessibility Workgroup:       http://a11y.org
>
> The World Wide Web Consortium (W3C), Web Accessibility Initiative (WAI)
> Chair,  Protocols & Formats     http://www.w3.org/wai/pf
>
>
>