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Re: [Minutes] MLW-LT call 2013-02-04

From: Felix Sasaki <fsasaki@w3.org>
Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2013 10:12:26 +0100
Message-ID: <511A077A.7080201@w3.org>
To: public-multilingualweb-lt@w3.org
Thanks, Pablo, just added you.

Best,

Felix

Am 12.02.13 10:06, schrieb Pablo Nieto Caride:
>
> Hi Felix,
>
> I attended this call.
>
> Cheers,
>
> *__________________________________*
>
> *Pablo Nieto Caride*
>
> *Dpto. Técnico/I+D+i*
>
> *Linguaserve Internacionalización de Servicios, S.A.*
>
> *Tel.: +34 91 761 64 60 ext. 0422
> Fax: +34 91 542 89 28 *
>
> *E-mail: **pablo.nieto@linguaserve.com 
> <mailto:pablo.nieto@linguaserve.com>***
>
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> *__________________________________*
>
> *De:*Felix Sasaki [mailto:fsasaki@w3.org]
> *Enviado el:* lunes, 11 de febrero de 2013 18:48
> *Para:* public-multilingualweb-lt@w3.org
> *Asunto:* [Minutes] MLW-LT call 2013-02-04
>
> Hi all,
>
> here are the minutes from last week call one
> http://www.w3.org/2013/02/04-mlw-lt-minutes.html
>
> apologies for the delay. Let me know if something (e.g. attendance) 
> needs to be fixed.
>
> Best,
>
> Felix
>
>     [1]W3C
>   
>        [1]http://www.w3.org/
>   
>                                 - DRAFT -
>   
>              MultilingualWeb-LT Working Group Teleconference
>   
> 04 Feb 2013
>   
>     See also: [2]IRC log
>   
>        [2]http://www.w3.org/2013/02/04-mlw-lt-irc
>   
> Attendees
>   
>     Present
>            daveL, shawn, chriLi, yves, mauricio, omstefanovm,
>            kfritsche, dom
>   
>     Regrets
>            not available
>   
>     Chair
>            daveL
>   
>     Scribe
>            DomJones
>   
> Contents
>   
>       * [3]Topics
>           1. [4]allowed characters regex discussion
>           2. [5]text for unicode normalization and best practices
>              action for Shaun issue-73
>           3. [6]domain comments issue-75 action for Christian
>           4. [7]terminology and disambiguation issue-68 action for
>              Tadej
>           5. [8]Minutes and Felix' comments
>           6. [9]How to move forward with disambiguation vs term
>              issue-67?
>           7. [10]issue-110 precedence between xml:lang and lang
>           8. [11]issue-115 SHOULD and SHOULD NOT examples
>       * [12]Summary of Action Items
>       __________________________________________________________
>   
> allowed characters regex discussion
>   
>     shawnm: The subset is safe, reg exp that match the subset will
>     be as how to refer to character ranges. These ranges end on
>     chars which are unassigned. You could put a codepoint into the
>     reg ex, there are no escape sequences. On the tested engines
>     that's fine but you are putting an unassigned code-point into
>     the exp. This is unprincipled for the standard and would like
>     strange in ITS spec.
>   
>     ... in the spec maybe refer to it with XML values
>   
>     daveL: Any comments?
>   
>     ... did you say there was another update to do on that shawn?
>   
>     shawnm: not complete yet but will send this week
>   
> text for unicode normalization and best practices action for Shaun
> issue-73
>   
>     daveL: action on text for unicode norm. Action 430.
>   
>     shawnm: not done yet, still pending.
>   
>     ... will have reg ex done by wednesday call not action 430
>   
>     daveL: Appreciate that
>   
> domain comments issue-75 action for Christian
>   
>     <daveL>
>     [13]https://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/track/a
>     ctions/434
>   
>       [13]https://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/track/actions/434
>   
>     daveL: Action 434 were you able to get any further on this
>     Christian?
>   
>     chriLi: Will start working on this tomorrow
>   
>     daveL: Appreciate this
>   
> terminology and disambiguation issue-68 action for Tadej
>   
>     <daveL>
>     [14]https://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/track/a
>     ctions/435
>   
>       [14]https://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/track/actions/435
>   
>     daveL: Action 435 tadej asks for this to be postponed until
>     wednesday in his absence. (only on IRC)
>   
>     ... Christian do you have time to talk to Tadej and Milan about
>     this?
>   
>     chrLi: Yes, on wednesday
>   
> Minutes and Felix' comments
>   
>     <daveL>
>     [15]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-
>     lt/2013Jan/0210.html
>   
>       [15]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2013Jan/0210.html
>   
>     <daveL>
>     [16]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-
>     lt-comments/2013Jan/0101.html
>   
>       [16]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt-comments/2013Jan/0101.html
>   
>     daveL: things that weren't captured on actions. There are a
>     number of things there relating to best practices. He was
>     asking christian if that would help with the NIF converstion /
>     normalisation. AFAIK: Felix has not had time to discuss NIF
>     with Sebastian Hellman. Christian, have you replied to that
>     already?
>   
>     ... you'd had a comment on canonical XML and interchange formats.
>   
>     ... Felix was asking what that topic would address normalisation
>     issues to do with NIF converstion.
>   
>     chriLi: I would need to revisit Felix's comments to answer that
>   
>     daveL: maybe worth waiting to see what we get from Shawn in a
>     day or 2
>   
>     ... felix likely out of action this week.
>   
>     ... seems like a big topic
>   
>     We'll leave that for now
>   
>     chriLi: I will look into this in the meantime
>   
> How to move forward with disambiguation vs term issue-67?
>   
>     <daveL> deferred until wednesday
>   
>     daveL: a couple of issues for discussions, raised by felix
>   
> issue-110 precedence between xml:lang and lang
>   
>     ... between co-chairs issues have been divided up so we focus on
>     different things and assure tracker is kept up to date.
>   
>     ... we have an xhtml test which addreses this but querying
>     whether it should be there or not
>   
>     Yves_ when you xml lang in html5 this is allowed but it has to
>     have the same value as lang and can only be there if lang
>     exists as well. Dont think we need to test for that we just
>     look for lang value and see if its the same as xml lang. -ve
>     test shows invalid HTML5 test.
>   
>     ... for XHTML the xml lang value takes precedence. Problem is we
>     didnt say we were processing XHTML therefore if this is
>     required should be a different test.
>   
>     shawnm: Should not have a third mode. XHTML should be processed
>     as XML or as HTML hoping for markup. There is perhaps an ambig
>     over lang or xml lang taking precidence.
>   
>     Yves_ XHTML file using validator.nu raises issues. If I try to
>     process the files as an XML doc then then both notations are
>     required.
>   
>     shawnm: XHTML would raise bigger issues using XML markup?
>   
>     Yves_: only problem is the XML Lang attribute.
>   
>     ... I guess we can work around this but worry about others, using
>     other parsers.
>   
>     daveL: Anyone else have concerns about this? Share shawns broad
>     view as not testing against XHTML.
>   
>     Yves_: Do we have a should keyword in the documentation?
>   
>     ... yes we do
>   
>     <Yves_>
>     [17]http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/drafts/i
>     ts20/its20.html#xhtml5-markup
>   
>       [17]http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/drafts/its20/its20.html#xhtml5-markup
>   
>     daveL: a general should - is not generally tested for. We
>     havent to date but we dont have many of them
>   
>     shawnm: An interesting should "quotes txt" it is perfectly
>     acceptable to have an XML only tool within the ITS spec.
>     Following should in section 7 makes doc that is not processable
>     by XML only validator.
>   
>     Yves_: tricky as file is processable by two different
>     validaotrs with different expectations.
>   
>     shawnm: is it acceptable to use both notations?
>   
>     Yves_: Maybe its fine the way it is and that we dont test for
>     it, just provide guidelines.
>   
>     daveL: could that should be converted to a best-practice?
>   
>     shawnm: Would feel more comfortable about this being a best
>     practice
>   
>     Yves_: good arg for both
>   
>     shawnm: Lang - correct behaviour - xhtml = lang attribute, in
>     xml = only xml lang, it takes precidence
>   
>     Yves_: remove the example from the XML test case as there is no
>     need for it there
>   
>     ... still not resolved general xml issue but we should not have
>     an XHTML example there
>   
>     shawnm: I agree with you
>   
>     <scribe> ACTION: leroy to remove XHTML example for ITS language
>     information [recorded in
>     [18]http://www.w3.org/2013/02/04-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action01]
>   
>     <trackbot> Created ACTION-441 - Remove XHTML example for ITS
>     language information [on Leroy Finn - due 2013-02-11].
>   
>     Yves_: How we test XHTML is a different topic, right?
>   
>     daveL: Yes, should raise as a general topic
>   
>     <scribe> ACTION: daveL to raise an issue on how to test for
>     XHTML [recorded in
>     [19]http://www.w3.org/2013/02/04-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action02]
>   
>     <trackbot> Created ACTION-442 - Raise an issue on how to test
>     for XHTML [on David Lewis - due 2013-02-11].
>   
>     daveL: Will raise the issue, Yves, can you respond to that?
>   
>     Yves_: yes, of course
>   
> issue-115 SHOULD and SHOULD NOT examples
>   
>     <daveL>
>     [20]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-
>     lt-comments/2013Jan/0214.html
>   
>       [20]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt-comments/2013Jan/0214.html
>   
>     Yves_: SVG can be in XHTML and Jirka raise an issue that XML
>     cannot be validated in the svg snippet
>   
>     <Yves_> Jirka:
>     [21]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-
>     lt-comments/2013Jan/0213.html
>   
>       [21]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt-comments/2013Jan/0213.html
>   
>     ... was an argument from Jirka shown above.
>   
>     shawnm: no way to put local attributes on svg etc.
>   
>     Yves_: So its a non-case
>   
>     shawnm: theoretically yes
>   
>     ... if its important to you as doc author to use local markup on
>     embedded svg then use HTML
>   
>     <daveL>
>     [22]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-
>     lt-comments/2013Jan/0209.html
>   
>       [22]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt-comments/2013Jan/0209.html
>   
>     daveL: Comment from mauricio on that topic
>   
>     mauricio: the most important thing is that these decisions
>     effect the impl
>   
>     implementations we're doing for WP 3
>   
>     <omstefanov> Mauricio
>   
>     ... I think that we will address that after the contents have
>     been translated.
>   
>     mauricio: A formal way to show what they have done, best
>     practices not fully supported.
>   
>     ... I'd like to know a better way to do this
>   
>     ... Can I use XHTML like XML with global rules and locally with
>     XML format?
>   
>     <daveL>
>     [23]http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/drafts/i
>     ts20/its20.html#xhtml5-markup
>   
>       [23]http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/drafts/its20/its20.html#xhtml5-markup
>   
>     daveL: In your case (section 7) it should be used like HTML. In
>     your case is that HTML for public consumption?
>   
>     mauricio: The content is extracted from the CMS, translated and
>     sent back
>   
>     daveL: its HTML that is publicly shown.
>   
>     mauricio: Drupal extracts that
>   
>     <Yves_> I think in Linguaserve case the XHTML is not for Web
>     broswer so using the XML notation for everything is the way to
>     go.
>   
>     <kfritsche> the XHTML is only a interchange format, drupal
>     shows it as HTML5
>   
>     daveL: Section which says should is for public consumption,
>     which is not the case in your case.
>   
>     ... Still seems to be an open issue
>   
>     ... need input from Jirka on SVG and other vocabs within HTML
>   
>     ... should we put this is as clairification in the spec?
>   
>     mauricio: some guidelines would be very appreciated.
>   
>     daveL: Agree these are big classes of applications
>   
>     <kfritsche> +1
>   
>     daveL: Add a note about SVG and MathML re treating XHTML as
>     HTML
>   
>     ... implication on best-practice and on the test suite
>   
>     Yves_: Its a should so should be clairifed in the section. 2
>     test cases, one for XML notation and one for XHTML notation.
>     Allowing the user to choose.
>   
>     daveL: So have examples in section 5
>   
>     ... Yves would you be willing to draft some text on that
>   
>     Yves_: Yes, will do if you raise an issue on that
>   
>     daveL: One thing, shepherds for various issues... Can you look
>     back and see if people have responded. If not, after a week
>     please email again stating if you dont hear back within a week
>     it implies you are satisfied
>   
>     ... would ask others to follow up in this way
>   
>     ... that way we have a record that we did our best for
>     clarification
>   
>     daveL: meeting closed. Talk on Wednesday
>   
> Summary of Action Items
>   
>     [NEW] ACTION: daveL to raise an issue on how to test for XHTML
>     [recorded in
>     [24]http://www.w3.org/2013/02/04-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action02]
>     [NEW] ACTION: leroy to remove XHTML example for ITS language
>     information [recorded in
>     [25]http://www.w3.org/2013/02/04-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action01]
>   
>     [End of minutes]
>       __________________________________________________________
>   
>   
>      Minutes formatted by David Booth's [26]scribe.perl version
>      1.137 ([27]CVS log)
>      $Date: 2013-02-11 17:43:44 $
>   
>       [26]http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm  <http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/%7Echeckout%7E/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm>
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>
Received on Tuesday, 12 February 2013 09:34:04 UTC

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