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minutes of 2009-09-02 teleconference

From: RaphaŽl Troncy <Raphael.Troncy@cwi.nl>
Date: Wed, 02 Sep 2009 16:25:14 +0200
Message-ID: <4A9E804A.1070701@cwi.nl>
To: Media Fragment <public-media-fragment@w3.org>
All,

The minutes are available for review at 
http://www.w3.org/2009/09/02-mediafrag-minutes.html (and in text format 
below).
Cheers.

   Erik & RaphaŽl

-----------
    [1]W3C
       [1] http://www.w3.org/
              Media Fragments Working Group Teleconference
02 Sep 2009
    [2]Agenda
       [2] 
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-fragment/2009Sep/0000.html
    See also: [3]IRC log
       [3] http://www.w3.org/2009/09/02-mediafrag-irc
Attendees
    Present
           Raphael, Davy, Silvia, Yves, thierry, Conrad
    Regrets
           Erik, Michael
    Chair
           Raphael
    Scribe
           raphael
Contents

      * [4]Topics
          1. [5]1. ADMIN
          2. [6]2. UC and Requirements
          3. [7]3. Specification
          4. [8]4. Test Cases
          5. [9]5. Implementation
          6. [10]6. AOB
      * [11]Summary of Action Items
      _________________________________________________________



    <trackbot> Date: 02 September 2009

    [12]http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/

      [12] http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/

1. ADMIN

    PROPOSED to accept the minutes of the 26 August 2009 telecon

    [13]http://www.w3.org/2009/08/26-mediafrag-minutes.html

      [13] http://www.w3.org/2009/08/26-mediafrag-minutes.html

    <silvia> +1

    <davy> +1

    +1

    Minutes accepted

    <Yves> +1

    Quick poll: [14]http://www.doodle.com/xbw9stfdmz3pr4nw

      [14] http://www.doodle.com/xbw9stfdmz3pr4nw

    We are still missing answers from Jack and Conrad

    scribe: we are likely to meet during these 2 time slots on Thu 17
    and Fri 18/09

    [silence]

    Anyone has a proposal for a virtual blackboard tool we could use ?

    <tmichel> I can book Zakim

    <scribe> ACTION: Thierry to book Zakim on Th 17 and Fri 18/09, from
    10:00 till 12:00 CET [recorded in
    [15]http://www.w3.org/2009/09/02-mediafrag-minutes.html#action01]

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-102 - Book Zakim on Th 17 and Fri 18/09,
    from 10:00 till 12:00 CET [on Thierry Michel - due 2009-09-09].

    <tmichel> Ok will convert To prper Time

    thanks

    Yves and I will most likely share an office during the call

2. UC and Requirements

    ACTION-101?

    <trackbot> ACTION-101 -- Yves Lafon to write a UC describing the use
    of aspect ratio feature and thus motivating its usage -- due
    2009-09-02 -- OPEN

    <trackbot>
    [16]http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/actions/101

      [16] http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/actions/101

    <scribe> ... pending

    Raphael: reviews of our documents will come from the Media
    Annotations WG (Felix), and TimedText (Philippe)
    ... Chris from SVG said that they were interested to review it, but
    I don't know whether they have done something

    Yves: I will relaunch TAG early next week

3. Specification

    3.1: Terminology

    Silvia: proposal to replace all occurence of URI by URI Ref, see
    [17]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-fragment/2009Au
    g/0066.html

      [17] 
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-fragment/2009Aug/0066.html

    Michael gave a +1 on the mailing list to this proposal

    <davy> +1

    <tmichel> +1

    Silvia: Yves, what is your take on that?

    <silvia>
    [18]http://labs.apache.org/webarch/uri/rfc/rfc3986.html#uri-referenc
    e

      [18] http://labs.apache.org/webarch/uri/rfc/rfc3986.html#uri-reference

    <tmichel> we could also say that when we say URI we mean URI
    reference

    <silvia>
    [19]http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/WD-media-fragments-spe
    c/ <- title

      [19] 
http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/WD-media-fragments-spec/

    Yves: if we use the term URI ref, will the people understand what we
    mean?

    Silvia: alternative (also suggested by Thierry) to add a paragraph
    clarifying our statement

    <tmichel> +1 for a preliminary paragraph

    Silvia: I'm ok with that, just wanted to point out the issue

    <scribe> ACTION: silvia to write such a paragraph in our 2
    documents, most likely within the Terminology sections [recorded in
    [20]http://www.w3.org/2009/09/02-mediafrag-minutes.html#action02]

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-103 - Write such a paragraph in our 2
    documents, most likely within the Terminology sections [on Silvia
    Pfeiffer - due 2009-09-09].

    3.2 Syntax

    Proposal for RESOLUTION: we will *NOT* allow editUnits

    for specifying the temporal dimension

    <silvia> +1

    +1

    <davy> +1

    <Yves> +1

    Yves: also to not fall in the trap of the MPEG-21 complexity

    RESOLUTION: we will *NOT* allow editUnits for specifying the
    temporal dimension

    Discussion 2: have absolute time specification that contains day and
    year

    Silvia: all done, using the clock scheme, added in the document and
    wiki

    <silvia>
    [21]http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/WD-media-fragments-spe
    c/#naming-syntax

      [21] 
http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/WD-media-fragments-spec/#naming-syntax

    Silvia: based on the HTML5/SMIL EBNF syntax

    ACTION-49?

    <trackbot> ACTION-49 -- Yves Lafon to draft the HTTP-Range syntax
    for different units (completing all the syntax for the two way
    handshake) -- due 2009-09-02 -- OPEN

    <trackbot>
    [22]http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/actions/49

      [22] http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/actions/49

    <silvia> am hoping we can get a reference implementation using
    flumotion for the clock time spec

    Yves: ongoing, but will have things done at the end of this week ...
    At least for seconds, so people can implement

    3.3 UA Server HTTP Communication

    The respective role of ? and #: see Silvia's blog post at
    [23]http://blog.gingertech.net/2009/08/19/jumping-to-time-offsets-in
    -videos/

      [23] 
http://blog.gingertech.net/2009/08/19/jumping-to-time-offsets-in-videos/

    Yves: what are the issues ?
    ... we could mandate the use of ? when there is transcoding
    happening
    ... since a new resource is created
    ... while # will be used in other cases

    <Yves> [24]http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-gregorio-uritemplate-03

      [24] http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-gregorio-uritemplate-03

    Yves: the URI template might be usable now

    Silvia: what the URI template will be used for?

    Yves: it will be useful in the case of ? ... to say that the server
    is aware of how to process media sub-resources

    Silvia: I wouldn't prescribe that
    ... I would rather say that URI template is useful in the case of ?
    but not make it dependent

    Yves: it is mostly used in definition, no need for implementation
    ... I'm not sure this is the right solution, but worth to
    investigate

    Silvia: yes, we might do a URI template for the ?
    ... actually, I would look into it

    <scribe> ACTION: Yves to start a thread on the mailing list to
    summarize the state of the discussion regarding ? and # (? when
    transcoding happening, #for other cases) + use of URI template for ?
    [recorded in
    [25]http://www.w3.org/2009/09/02-mediafrag-minutes.html#action03]

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-104 - Start a thread on the mailing list
    to summarize the state of the discussion regarding ? and # (? when
    transcoding happening, #for other cases) + use of URI template for ?
    [on Yves Lafon - due 2009-09-09].

    ACTION-69?

    <trackbot> ACTION-69 -- Conrad Parker to draw a representation of
    the general structure of a media resource, for streamable formats
    (H/H' + K + D1 + D2 + D3) -- due 2009-04-24 -- OPEN

    <trackbot>
    [26]http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/actions/69

      [26] http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/actions/69

    I will ping Conrad what's the status

4. Test Cases

    ACTON-93?

    ACTION-93?

    <trackbot> ACTION-93 -- Michael Hausenblas to revisit the TC and see
    which are effected by the temporal-optional-comma-decision -- due
    2009-07-29 -- OPEN

    <trackbot>
    [27]http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/actions/93

      [27] http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/actions/93

    still pending while I have closed ACTION-99

    Michael tool: [28]http://ld2sd.deri.org/corrib/

      [28] http://ld2sd.deri.org/corrib/

    Should we use this tool that Michael hacks ?

    Yves: I'm happy if Michael wants to further develop it

    Raphael: do we have already feedback to provide to Michael ?

    [silence]

    Raphael: I'm happy with the tool

    <silvia> I think this table needs row numbers

    Raphael: I interpret your silence as you would not mind to add new
    TC and interact with them

    Feature proposal: add row numbers in the table

    thanks Silvia

    <silvia> also, somebody needs to add the other discussed test cases
    :)

    Raphael: yes, we will ask Michael :-)

5. Implementation

    Silvia: nice demo, play it at
    [29]http://new.annodex.net/~silvia/itext/mediafrag.html

      [29] http://new.annodex.net/~silvia/itext/mediafrag.html

    <silvia>
    [30]http://blog.gingertech.net/2009/09/02/demo-of-deep-hyperlinking-
    into-html5-video/

      [30] 
http://blog.gingertech.net/2009/09/02/demo-of-deep-hyperlinking-into-html5-video/

    Blog post:
    [31]http://blog.gingertech.net/2009/09/02/demo-of-deep-hyperlinking-
    into-html5-video/

      [31] 
http://blog.gingertech.net/2009/09/02/demo-of-deep-hyperlinking-into-html5-video/

    Silvia: what I have done is to showcase for the HTML5 WG what the
    media frag spec could do
    ... I don't cover all the spec, temporal dimension only and simple
    way of specifying time
    ... no error handling
    ... basic goal is to replicate YouTube functionalities ... but
    cooler ;-)
    ... everything implemented in Javascript
    ... it will become much more complicated if we implement all the
    schemes we foresee in the spec
    ... but the proof of concept is more important at this point

    Raphael: would you mind to cc the Media Fragments WG if you
    advertise this demo to the WHAT/HTML5 mailing lists ?

    Silvia: no problem

    Raphael: perhaps warn the audience that this does not cover the
    protocol part of the spec, how the bits will be send between the
    server and the UA
    ... but on client side, it shows nicely what the media fragments URI
    spec will enable

    Silvia: I have to use a hack for caching / optimizing the media
    duration and not perform look up all the time
    ... Mozilla guys are happy to make this feature standard anyway
    ... this is particular to the ogg format
    ... can I get approval from the group for advertizing this work to
    WHAT?

    Raphael: absolutely !

    <davy> +1

    <conrad> +1

    Conrad, you're not on the phone, I need to chase you for some
    actions ... pending and overdue

    is there any strong constraint with this hour for you?

    ACTION-90?

    <trackbot> ACTION-90 -- Davy Van Deursen to provide a pointer to
    Yves to a lib he can use to slice media files -- due 2009-10-14 --
    OPEN

    <trackbot>
    [32]http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/actions/90

      [32] http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/actions/90

    Davy: still pending, it is more complicated than what I thought ...
    ... there is service, but these are not libraries we can interface

    <conrad> raphael, sorry, no strong constraint, i was delayed coming
    home from work

    Davy: we will use our platform, but we need to provide the interface
    ... for Yves's hacking
    ... I will write more information on the wiki page when this is done
    ... should be done by 17/09/2009

    Wiki page:
    [33]http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/wiki/ImplementationExp
    eriment

      [33] 
http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/wiki/ImplementationExperiment

    <silvia> ok

    Silvia, could you add your demo on this page?

6. AOB

    Is there any other business you would like to discuss?

    Conrad, could you please fill
    [34]http://www.doodle.com/xbw9stfdmz3pr4nw asap ?

      [34] http://www.doodle.com/xbw9stfdmz3pr4nw

    Raphael: we should think about the structure for the virtual meeting

    <Yves> yep

    Discussion: ? vs # / implementations / protocol stuff / test cases

    Conrad: we need the status of your actions
    ... and we need to have a telecon on the protocol comparison

    when can we have that?

    <silvia> how is Action-69? Is it too hard to draw? would it be
    better to describe?

    <conrad> action 69 is not yet done

    <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - 69

    <conrad> i have some diagrams close to that ;-)

    ACTION-69?

    <trackbot> ACTION-69 -- Conrad Parker to draw a representation of
    the general structure of a media resource, for streamable formats
    (H/H' + K + D1 + D2 + D3) -- due 2009-04-24 -- OPEN

    <trackbot>
    [35]http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/actions/69

      [35] http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/actions/69

    Conrad: I have already diagrams close to that

    Poll: [36]http://www.doodle.com/xbw9stfdmz3pr4nw

      [36] http://www.doodle.com/xbw9stfdmz3pr4nw

    it would be great if you could make one of the two time slots

    [adjourned]

Summary of Action Items

    [NEW] ACTION: silvia to write such a paragraph in our 2 documents,
    most likely within the Terminology sections [recorded in
    [37]http://www.w3.org/2009/09/02-mediafrag-minutes.html#action02]
    [NEW] ACTION: Thierry to book Zakim on Th 17 and Fri 18/09, from
    10:00 till 12:00 CET [recorded in
    [38]http://www.w3.org/2009/09/02-mediafrag-minutes.html#action01]
    [NEW] ACTION: Yves to start a thread on the mailing list to
    summarize the state of the discussion regarding ? and # (? when
    transcoding happening, #for other cases) + use of URI template for ?
    [recorded in
    [39]http://www.w3.org/2009/09/02-mediafrag-minutes.html#action03]

    [End of minutes]

-- 
RaphaŽl Troncy
EURECOM, Multimedia Communications Department
2229, route des CrÍtes, 06560 Sophia Antipolis, France.
e-mail: raphael.troncy@eurecom.fr & raphael.troncy@gmail.com
Tel: +33 (0)4 - 9300 8242
Fax: +33 (0)4 - 9000 8200
Web: http://www.cwi.nl/~troncy/
Received on Wednesday, 2 September 2009 14:26:09 GMT

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