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Re: Response to your LC Comment -2393 on Media Ontology spec

From: Thierry MICHEL <tmichel@w3.org>
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2010 10:22:55 +0200
Message-ID: <4CBEA6DF.9000101@w3.org>
To: Silvia Pfeiffer <silviapfeiffer1@gmail.com>
CC: James Salsman <jsalsman@talknicer.com>, "public-media-annotation@w3.org" <public-media-annotation@w3.org>
Great thanks.
Thierry.

Le 20/10/2010 10:13, Silvia Pfeiffer a écrit :
> OK, will do, but not before the weekend.
> Thanks,
> Silvia.
>
> On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 7:08 PM, Thierry MICHEL<tmichel@w3.org>  wrote:
>> Silvia,
>>
>> You have kindly offered to provide information for the WebM multimedia
>> container format mapping table.
>>
>> As I have no feed back from James, could you please send us this
>> information.
>> The WebM template is available at
>> http://dev.w3.org/2008/video/mediaann/mediaont-1.0/mediaont-1.0.html#iddiv4x2x27165
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> Thierry.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Le 15/10/2010 07:41, Silvia Pfeiffer a écrit :
>>>
>>> Speex is a codec and not a metadata format. Ogg Speex is already covered
>>> by
>>>
>>> http://dev.w3.org/2008/video/mediaann/mediaont-1.0/mediaont-1.0.html#iddiv4x2x16776,
>>> just as that covers Ogg Vorbis and Ogg Theora.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Silvia.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Oct 15, 2010 at 4:36 PM, James
>>> Salsman<jsalsman@talknicer.com>wrote:
>>>
>>>> Silvia,
>>>>
>>>> Thierry specifically told me that Speex wasn't approved because it was
>>>> not a metadata format.
>>>>
>>>> Are you saying that Speex is already included in the ontology under ogg?
>>>>
>>>> Sincerely,
>>>> James Salsman
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Oct 14, 2010 at 10:07 PM, Silvia Pfeiffer
>>>> <silviapfeiffer1@gmail.com>    wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> James,
>>>>>
>>>>> Nobody says that media formats do not contain metadata. But you are
>>>>> referring to codec data here and not to media fromats. Codec data never
>>>>> stands on its own and can thus not expose metadata. It always exposes it
>>>>
>>>> as
>>>>>
>>>>> part of a container. Thus, Ogg Speex already is covered. And you have to
>>>>> regard metadata for VP8 in the context of WebM.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thus, when Thierry asks for a spec for WebM metadata, that will cover
>>>>> the
>>>>> VP8 metadata.
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards,
>>>>> Silvia.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, Oct 15, 2010 at 3:07 PM, James Salsman<jsalsman@talknicer.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Dear Thierry,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I most certainly do not cancel my objection.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Please send me the names and email addresses of all persons who
>>>>>> purport to claim that media format definitions do not contain
>>>>>> metadata.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I have asked the VP8 and Speex media authorities to complete your
>>>>>> ontology forms.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sincerely,
>>>>>> James Salsman
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 14, 2010 at 4:15 AM, Thierry MICHEL<tmichel@w3.org>    wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> James,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> We need to wrap up this issue in order to allow the MAWG to move
>>>>
>>>> forward
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> Media Ontology spec.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Could you please respond to this email and say:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 1- that you cancel your formal objection.
>>>>>>> 2- that you agree to the MAWG proposal to include a
>>>>>>> WebM multimedia container format mapping table
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> as you had referred to
>>>>>>> http://www.webmproject.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 3- Do you plan to send us the WebM multimedia container format mapping
>>>>>>> table, whith the appropriate info ?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> http://dev.w3.org/2008/video/mediaann/mediaont-1.0/mediaont-1.0.html#iddiv4x2x27165
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Best,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thierry
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Le 12/10/2010 08:54, Thierry MICHEL a écrit :
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Silvia,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> This is exactly what I have told James, in my earlier email in
>>>>
>>>> response
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> to his last call comment.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-annotation/2010Sep/0225.html
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> extract:
>>>>>>>> "To focus on your request to include VP8 and speex in our Ontology,
>>>>
>>>> the
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> mapping tables are intended for multimedia *metadata formats*.
>>>>>>>> - VP8 is an open video compression format (codec).
>>>>>>>> - Speex is a free audio codec for Free Speech.
>>>>>>>> These are not *metadata formats*, and therefore not meant to be
>>>>
>>>> listed
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> in our mapping tables".
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> As James raised an objection if this 2 formats were not included, I
>>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>> asked him to provide the 2 mapping tables for Speex and VP8, and see
>>>>>>>> what he could provide ...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> And, as we had concluded in the MAWG that on the container carries
>>>>>>>> metadata, I have in a couple of emails asked James to provide a
>>>>
>>>> mapping
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> table for the media container formats WebM.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> an pointed to the template to use
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Annotations/drafts/ontology10/CR/mapping_table-php.html
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I am still waiting for James to provide this information if he wants
>>>>
>>>> to
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> see it in the spec. A place holder for this containet is already
>>>>>>>> created
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> http://dev.w3.org/2008/video/mediaann/mediaont-1.0/mediaont-1.0.html#iddiv4x2x27165
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thierry.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Le 12/10/2010 03:43, Silvia Pfeiffer a écrit :
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> James, Thierry,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Speex and VP8 are codecs and don't by themselves have accessible
>>>>>>>>> metadata.
>>>>>>>>> They, however, are not distributed as codec data, but rather inside
>>>>>>>>> media
>>>>>>>>> containers.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> When we talk about Speex in files, it comes in an Ogg container and
>>>>
>>>> as
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> such
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> http://dev.w3.org/2008/video/mediaann/mediaont-1.0/mediaont-1.0.html#iddiv4x2x16776should
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> satisfy your need for a mapping table.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> When we talk about VP8 in files, it comes in a WebM container with
>>>>>>>>> Vorbis.
>>>>>>>>> Somebody needs to fill in
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> http://dev.w3.org/2008/video/mediaann/mediaont-1.0/mediaont-1.0.html#iddiv4x2x27165
>>>> !
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> If nobody is doing it, let me know and I'll make the time to dig it
>>>>>>>>> out.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>>> Silvia.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Oct 12, 2010 at 3:54 AM, Thierry MICHEL<tmichel@w3.org>
>>>>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Dear James,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> In your latest email to the MAWG response to your comment, you seem
>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>> disagree with the MAWG proposal.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-annotation/2010Sep/0245.html
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> "I don't agree with the statement that speex or VP8 are not
>>>>
>>>> metadata
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> formats. They are audio and audiovisual media formats which contain
>>>>>>>>>> both metadata and data in their specifications.
>>>>>>>>>> This disagreement can be resolved if speex and VP8 are included in
>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> media ontology".
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The group is currently discussing your objection. Speex is an audio
>>>>>>>>>> format, and the Ontology spec is mainly incorporating images and
>>>>>>>>>> video
>>>>>>>>>> metadata formats.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> To move forward, could you please send the MAWG the 2 mapping
>>>>
>>>> tables
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>> Speex and VP8.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Please use as template the following tables with the exact name of
>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> property being mapped to, like ma:identifier, ma:title, etc.
>>>>>>>>>> and the same columns: Relation, How to do the mapping, Datatype,
>>>>>>>>>> Required
>>>>>>>>>> vs Optional,XPath
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> templates:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> http://dev.w3.org/2008/video/mediaann/mediaont-1.0/mediaont-1.0.html#metadata-mapping-table
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Could you please send these ASAP as we are about to release a new
>>>>>>>>>> publication of the Media Ontology spec
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Best regards,
>>>>>>>>>> Thierry Michel
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
Received on Wednesday, 20 October 2010 08:23:23 GMT

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