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Re: Response to your LC Comment -2393 on Media Ontology spec

From: Silvia Pfeiffer <silviapfeiffer1@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2010 19:13:47 +1100
Message-ID: <AANLkTi=nS1HsgZiMq9bzg6oR477R+tz4WJWXgxsXa2hz@mail.gmail.com>
To: tmichel@w3.org
Cc: James Salsman <jsalsman@talknicer.com>, "public-media-annotation@w3.org" <public-media-annotation@w3.org>
OK, will do, but not before the weekend.
Thanks,
Silvia.

On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 7:08 PM, Thierry MICHEL <tmichel@w3.org> wrote:
> Silvia,
>
> You have kindly offered to provide information for the WebM multimedia
> container format mapping table.
>
> As I have no feed back from James, could you please send us this
> information.
> The WebM template is available at
> http://dev.w3.org/2008/video/mediaann/mediaont-1.0/mediaont-1.0.html#iddiv4x2x27165
>
> Best,
>
> Thierry.
>
>
>
>
> Le 15/10/2010 07:41, Silvia Pfeiffer a écrit :
>>
>> Speex is a codec and not a metadata format. Ogg Speex is already covered
>> by
>>
>> http://dev.w3.org/2008/video/mediaann/mediaont-1.0/mediaont-1.0.html#iddiv4x2x16776,
>> just as that covers Ogg Vorbis and Ogg Theora.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Silvia.
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Oct 15, 2010 at 4:36 PM, James
>> Salsman<jsalsman@talknicer.com>wrote:
>>
>>> Silvia,
>>>
>>> Thierry specifically told me that Speex wasn't approved because it was
>>> not a metadata format.
>>>
>>> Are you saying that Speex is already included in the ontology under ogg?
>>>
>>> Sincerely,
>>> James Salsman
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Oct 14, 2010 at 10:07 PM, Silvia Pfeiffer
>>> <silviapfeiffer1@gmail.com>  wrote:
>>>>
>>>> James,
>>>>
>>>> Nobody says that media formats do not contain metadata. But you are
>>>> referring to codec data here and not to media fromats. Codec data never
>>>> stands on its own and can thus not expose metadata. It always exposes it
>>>
>>> as
>>>>
>>>> part of a container. Thus, Ogg Speex already is covered. And you have to
>>>> regard metadata for VP8 in the context of WebM.
>>>>
>>>> Thus, when Thierry asks for a spec for WebM metadata, that will cover
>>>> the
>>>> VP8 metadata.
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>> Silvia.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Oct 15, 2010 at 3:07 PM, James Salsman<jsalsman@talknicer.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Dear Thierry,
>>>>>
>>>>> I most certainly do not cancel my objection.
>>>>>
>>>>> Please send me the names and email addresses of all persons who
>>>>> purport to claim that media format definitions do not contain
>>>>> metadata.
>>>>>
>>>>> I have asked the VP8 and Speex media authorities to complete your
>>>>> ontology forms.
>>>>>
>>>>> Sincerely,
>>>>> James Salsman
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, Oct 14, 2010 at 4:15 AM, Thierry MICHEL<tmichel@w3.org>  wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> James,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We need to wrap up this issue in order to allow the MAWG to move
>>>
>>> forward
>>>>>>
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> Media Ontology spec.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Could you please respond to this email and say:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 1- that you cancel your formal objection.
>>>>>> 2- that you agree to the MAWG proposal to include a
>>>>>> WebM multimedia container format mapping table
>>>>>>
>>>>>> as you had referred to
>>>>>> http://www.webmproject.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 3- Do you plan to send us the WebM multimedia container format mapping
>>>>>> table, whith the appropriate info ?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>
>>> http://dev.w3.org/2008/video/mediaann/mediaont-1.0/mediaont-1.0.html#iddiv4x2x27165
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Best,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thierry
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Le 12/10/2010 08:54, Thierry MICHEL a écrit :
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Silvia,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This is exactly what I have told James, in my earlier email in
>>>
>>> response
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> to his last call comment.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>
>>> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-annotation/2010Sep/0225.html
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> extract:
>>>>>>> "To focus on your request to include VP8 and speex in our Ontology,
>>>
>>> the
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> mapping tables are intended for multimedia *metadata formats*.
>>>>>>> - VP8 is an open video compression format (codec).
>>>>>>> - Speex is a free audio codec for Free Speech.
>>>>>>> These are not *metadata formats*, and therefore not meant to be
>>>
>>> listed
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> in our mapping tables".
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> As James raised an objection if this 2 formats were not included, I
>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>> asked him to provide the 2 mapping tables for Speex and VP8, and see
>>>>>>> what he could provide ...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> And, as we had concluded in the MAWG that on the container carries
>>>>>>> metadata, I have in a couple of emails asked James to provide a
>>>
>>> mapping
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> table for the media container formats WebM.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> an pointed to the template to use
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>
>>> http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Annotations/drafts/ontology10/CR/mapping_table-php.html
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I am still waiting for James to provide this information if he wants
>>>
>>> to
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> see it in the spec. A place holder for this containet is already
>>>>>>> created
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>
>>> http://dev.w3.org/2008/video/mediaann/mediaont-1.0/mediaont-1.0.html#iddiv4x2x27165
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thierry.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Le 12/10/2010 03:43, Silvia Pfeiffer a écrit :
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> James, Thierry,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Speex and VP8 are codecs and don't by themselves have accessible
>>>>>>>> metadata.
>>>>>>>> They, however, are not distributed as codec data, but rather inside
>>>>>>>> media
>>>>>>>> containers.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> When we talk about Speex in files, it comes in an Ogg container and
>>>
>>> as
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> such
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>
>>> http://dev.w3.org/2008/video/mediaann/mediaont-1.0/mediaont-1.0.html#iddiv4x2x16776should
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> satisfy your need for a mapping table.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> When we talk about VP8 in files, it comes in a WebM container with
>>>>>>>> Vorbis.
>>>>>>>> Somebody needs to fill in
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>
>>> http://dev.w3.org/2008/video/mediaann/mediaont-1.0/mediaont-1.0.html#iddiv4x2x27165
>>> !
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If nobody is doing it, let me know and I'll make the time to dig it
>>>>>>>> out.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>> Silvia.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Tue, Oct 12, 2010 at 3:54 AM, Thierry MICHEL<tmichel@w3.org>
>>>
>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Dear James,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> In your latest email to the MAWG response to your comment, you seem
>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>> disagree with the MAWG proposal.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>
>>> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-annotation/2010Sep/0245.html
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> "I don't agree with the statement that speex or VP8 are not
>>>
>>> metadata
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> formats. They are audio and audiovisual media formats which contain
>>>>>>>>> both metadata and data in their specifications.
>>>>>>>>> This disagreement can be resolved if speex and VP8 are included in
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> media ontology".
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The group is currently discussing your objection. Speex is an audio
>>>>>>>>> format, and the Ontology spec is mainly incorporating images and
>>>>>>>>> video
>>>>>>>>> metadata formats.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> To move forward, could you please send the MAWG the 2 mapping
>>>
>>> tables
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>> Speex and VP8.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Please use as template the following tables with the exact name of
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> property being mapped to, like ma:identifier, ma:title, etc.
>>>>>>>>> and the same columns: Relation, How to do the mapping, Datatype,
>>>>>>>>> Required
>>>>>>>>> vs Optional,XPath
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> templates:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>
>>> http://dev.w3.org/2008/video/mediaann/mediaont-1.0/mediaont-1.0.html#metadata-mapping-table
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Could you please send these ASAP as we are about to release a new
>>>>>>>>> publication of the Media Ontology spec
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Best regards,
>>>>>>>>> Thierry Michel
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
Received on Wednesday, 20 October 2010 08:14:42 GMT

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