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Re: AW: Properties for media fragment?

From: David Singer <singer@apple.com>
Date: Wed, 6 May 2009 12:06:53 -0700
Message-Id: <p062408d8c6279004713c@[17.202.35.52]>
To: Pierre-Antoine Champin <pierre-antoine.champin@liris.cnrs.fr>, "Bailer, Werner" <werner.bailer@joanneum.at>
Cc: RaphaŽl Troncy <Raphael.Troncy@cwi.nl>, "public-media-annotation@w3.org" <public-media-annotation@w3.org>
At 11:12  +0100 6/05/09, Pierre-Antoine Champin wrote:
>Hi all,
>
>Ok, let's drop the video-book comparison, which indeed is not perfect.
>
>My problem is not about time vs. interval, but rather about the non
>trivial propagation of properties on sub-intervals. More formally:
>
>let I and I' be 2 intervals, such that I' is included in I
>assume that property P has value V on I,
>what can we tell about property P on  I'?
>
>my answer would be: in the general case, nothing. I suspect it strongly
>depends on the semantics of property P, and may be what you need its
>value for. The example I have in mind is the "right to quote" (not sure
>about the translation): in France (probably elsewhere as well), you are
>allowed to quote a part of a protected work without requiring the
>author's consent if the part is short enough (roughly). So the copyright
>on I (or at least some of its implications) may not apply on I'.

true;  "Tom Hanks appears in this work" may be 
true of l but not of some short subsets of l. 
You have to be careful what the statements mean.

>
>This is just an example, it might not be perfect either, but this
>captures my doubts about asking questions like the one proposed by David.
>
>I would rather stick to asking questions about and identified resource R
>(whole or fragment), *but* having a mean to warn the user that several
>values may apply on several part (also identified resources) of R. This
>is the work of the user / the application to figure out which ones of
>these values are relevant to them.

that might work.  I'm glad we're not just punting 
the question and saying "all annotations/etc. are 
un-timed..."

>
>   pa
>
>
>Bailer, Werner a ťcrit :
>>  I agree that in most cases a time interval 
>>would last longer than one frame, but there 
>>could be cases when time points are useful.
>>
>>  Concerning the copyright example: I think 
>>there are cases (e.g. news content created from 
>>different sources) where the copyright might be 
>>different for different segments. Even in the 
>>book example, the book might be a collection of 
>>articles for which the rights situation is 
>>different.
>>
>>  Best regards,
>>  Werner
>>
>>  ________________________________________
>>  Von: public-media-annotation-request@w3.org 
>>[public-media-annotation-request@w3.org] im 
>>Auftrag von RaphaŽl Troncy 
>>[Raphael.Troncy@cwi.nl]
>>  Gesendet: Mittwoch, 06. Mai 2009 08:48
>>  An: Pierre-Antoine Champin
>>  Cc: David Singer; public-media-annotation@w3.org
>>  Betreff: Re: Properties for media fragment?
>>
>>>  I'm not sure that I agree with the idea of having a value for property X
>>>  *at each instant*...
>>
>>  Hum, is it a question of time vs interval? If yes, then I agree, the
>>  notion of point is probably an overkill, but you might have intervals
>>  that are extremely short in duration ...
>>  In the media fragments WG, we cannot address a single time point, but it
>>  will always be an interval, of potentially of one frame duration.
>>
>>>  Back to your copyright example: for me, the copyright is on a whole
>>>  media entity, spanning from T to T', even if embeded in a bigger one. It
>>>  does not feel right to state that at time T", the copyright is C, just
>>>  like it would not feel right to state that the copyright of a book (or
>>>  its author, or its title) is the copyright (author, title, resp.) for
>>>  each and every word of the book.
>>
>>  The analogy of words in a book vs a time point of a temporal resource is
>>  tricky! I'm not sure the words are the right unit to consider in a book,
>>    and I'm pretty sure you don't want to discrete a temporal resource.
>>
>>     RaphaŽl
>>
>>  --
>>  RaphaŽl Troncy
>>  CWI (Centre for Mathematics and Computer Science),
>>  Science Park 123, 1098 XG Amsterdam, The Netherlands
>>  e-mail: raphael.troncy@cwi.nl & raphael.troncy@gmail.com
>>  Tel: +31 (0)20 - 592 4093
>>  Fax: +31 (0)20 - 592 4312
>  > Web: http://www.cwi.nl/~troncy/
>>
>>
>
>
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-- 
David Singer
Multimedia Standards, Apple Inc.
Received on Wednesday, 6 May 2009 19:07:46 GMT

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