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Re: What would break, a question for implementors? (was Re: Is 303 really necessary?)

From: Nathan <nathan@webr3.org>
Date: Tue, 09 Nov 2010 15:54:37 +0000
Message-ID: <4CD96EBD.3060503@webr3.org>
To: Kingsley Idehen <kidehen@openlinksw.com>
CC: Ian Davis <me@iandavis.com>, Pete Johnston <Pete.Johnston@eduserv.org.uk>, Linked Data community <public-lod@w3.org>
Kingsley Idehen wrote:
> On 11/9/10 6:57 AM, Ian Davis wrote:
>> On Tue, Nov 9, 2010 at 11:23 AM, Nathan<nathan@webr3.org>  wrote:
>>> Pete Johnston wrote:
>>>> "This document mentions the following class"
>>> It's all very simple really, when you remove all the conflated terms.

it's a description.

>> I am not conflating terms and nor is my example, but I think you are 
>> (see below)
>>
>>> What is this:
>>>
>>> <?xml version="1.0"?>
>>> <rdf:RDF xmlns:rdf="http://www.w3.org/1999/02/22-rdf-syntax-ns#"
>>>   xmlns:foaf="http://xmlns.com/foaf/0.1/"
>>>   xmlns:rdfs="http://www.w3.org/2000/01/rdf-schema#"
>>>   xmlns:wdrs="http://www.w3.org/2007/05/powder-s#"
>>>   xmlns:dbp="http://dbpedia.org/resource/"
>>>   >
>>>
>>>   <dbp:Toucan rdf:about="http://iandavis.com/2010/303/toucan">
>>>     <rdfs:label>A Toucan</rdfs:label>
>>>     <foaf:depiction
>>> rdf:resource="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/6d/Pteroglossus-torquatus-001.jpg/250px-Pteroglossus-torquatus-001.jpg" 
>>>
>>> />
>>>     <rdfs:comment>This resource is an individual toucan that happens 
>>> to live
>>> in southern mexico.</rdfs:comment>
>>>     <wdrs:describedby
>>> rdf:resource="http://iandavis.com/2010/303/toucan.rdf"/>
>>>   </dbp:Toucan>
>>>
>>>   <foaf:Document rdf:about="http://iandavis.com/2010/303/toucan.rdf">
>>>     <rdfs:label>A Description of a Toucan</rdfs:label>
>>>     <rdfs:comment>This document is a description of the toucan
>>> resource.</rdfs:comment>
>>>   </foaf:Document>
>>>
>>> </rdf:RDF>
>>>
>>> <http://iandavis.com/2010/303/toucan>  is simply another name for 
>>> whatever
>>> the above is.
>> Nope. It's not at all. That text you include is the entity sent when
>> you issue a GET to the URI. Entity bodies aren't usually named on the
>> web. It's also a representation of
>> http://iandavis.com/2010/303/toucan.rdf
>>
>> You are conflating the resource with the content of an HTTP message
>> sent to your computer.
>>
>> You could interpret the tabulator property as meaning "the entity
>> returned when you perform a GET on the URI contains the following
>> class"
>>
>>
>>> Hints:
>>>   - it's not a resource
>> It has a URI http://iandavis.com/2010/303/toucan.rdf, anything
>> identified by a URI is a resource.
> 
> Yes, in "Resource Conflation" lingo.
> 
> No, in reality.
> 
> A URI is an Identifier. Remember it stands for: Uniform Resource 
> Identifier. It should actually be: Universal Object Identifier or 
> Universal Entity Identifier or Uniform Object Identifier or Uniform 
> Entity Identifier.
> 
> URIs Identify "Entities" or "Things". They can identify anything we can 
> imagine.
> 
> A Resource is a kind of "Thing" that has physical manifestation in a 
> specific realm. Yes, we are "Resources", "Documents", "Widgets", but not 
> in the Web Realm.
> 
> You are conflating because Web != Real World. Thus, saying everything is 
> a "Resource", when the rest of the world knows that everything is an 
> "Entity" or "Thing" or "Object" is conflation that leads to utter 
> incomprehension.
> 
> How do you think Object based systems work? How do you think Object 
> Oriented Database work? How do you think Object Relational Databases 
> work? How do you think Relational Databases work?  How do computers 
> work? Is an Address the only way we use a Pointer? Do you seriously 
> think that the ubiquity of an HTTP network, where physical resources 
> represent Documents (e.g. HTML, RDF, XML etc..), warrants such overreach 
> and disregard for the past re. computer technology continuum?
> 
> "Resource" conflation days are numbered. Its usage and acceptence is 
> inherently inversely related to Linked Data concept comprehension.
> 
> Remember my statement above. Same applies to RDF = Linked Data, conflation.
> 
> 
>>>   - it's not a document
>> I think it is
> 
> It cannot be!
> 
> It resolves to a Document.
> 
> Without Documents how can one perceive anything across any medium?
>>>   - it's not an rdf document
>> I think it is
> 
> It resolves to a Document Type where the Content is expressed in on of 
> the RDF markup syntaxes.
> 
>>
>>>   - it's not a toucan
>> Agree. That text is not a toucan.
>>
>>
> Yes, but for a different reason. The Toucan is the Referent of the URI. 
> This is how its always been, if it wasn't you wouldn't be reading this 
> mail via a computer system that uses pointers to create references that 
> enables us walk data structures, programmatically.
> 
> 
> Kingsley
>>
>>> Best,
>>>
>>> Nathan
>>>
>> Ian
>>
>>
> 
> 
Received on Tuesday, 9 November 2010 15:55:32 UTC

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