Re: Semantic Web pneumonia and the Linked Data flu

On 2/9/09 10:39 AM, Andreas Langegger wrote:
> I'm afraid you cannot do this "in an automatic fashion" without 
> knowing what to expose as RDF actually.
You can make the "Data Source" ontology automatically, but nothing 
beyond that (the point you are making).

We made the strategic error of dealing with the reality of complex 
mappings thereby skipping the vital initial step of automatic "Data 
Source" ontology and instance data generation. The incoherence about our 
SPASQL based Meta Schema Language is the net result :-(


Replies to the complex (or beyond "Data Source" ontology mapping) below:
>
> For me there are three poeple with real clear incentives:
> 1. news corps and those bigger publishers who already have their 
> developers or can pay some to do that mapping (BBC)
Yes, but even in these cases, making a "Data Source" ontology from the  
RDBMS schemas driving existing content management systems can be 
helpful, even if it simply proves:

1. It can be done
2. It can be done in a manner that scales (*this is the heart and soul 
of the matter, ultimately*).
> 2. research orgs, NPOs, NGOs, also GOs which publish public data 
> (EuroStat, US census)
Ditto.
> 3. nerds like us ;-)
Hmm. for the nerds, this is where the problem lies. Most nerds of type: 
programmer, don't think data modeling first. They think in terms of 
languages and programming constructs first :-( Thus, what is basic stuff 
of a DBMS style architect is complex to the programmer.  The "nerd" 
wants a tool that simplifies life in his/her universe-of-discourse, but 
fatally assumes that his/her subjective world view is the norm :-(

So when all is said and done: Context is King!

>
> But any other people like bloggers, etc. will have to wait until the 
> nerds have created CMS with RDF built-in (e.g. Drupal), but they won't 
> be able to expose data they already have in RDBMS without us nerds.
>
Unfortunately not true. Do you have an idea of the size of the following 
realms:

1. Informix 4GL developers
2. Progress 4GL developers
3. Sybase / PowerBuilder developers
4. Visual Basic atop ODBC developers
5. Oracle Forms developers
6. Ingres 4GL developers
7.  etc..

The communities above grok the following:

1. DBMS technology and best practices (how do describe data containers 
as well as navigation via cursors of different types)
2. Security and Scalability
3. Realm specific Entity-Attribute-Value + Classes & Relationships atop 
RDBMS substrates (but in application specific ways)
4. RowIDs (URIs in Linked Data land) and Keys (Unique or Primary) as 
Indirect Identifiers (IFPs in Semantic Web and Linked Data land)
5. Identity

Drupal is a baby tool the developers from the communities above. Ditto 
many of the LAMP application stack.

The real issue is getting the communities above to realize that Linked 
Data solves a problem they already know pretty well. All we need to do 
is connect terminology and show how we've shrunk the "Report Writer" 
courtesy of HTTP and its ability to deliver negotiable data 
representation (presentation).

Kingsley

> regards,
> Andy
>
> On Feb 9, 2009, at 4:30 PM, Juan Sequeda wrote:
>
>> On Mon, Feb 9, 2009 at 9:20 AM, Kingsley Idehen 
>> <kidehen@openlinksw.com <mailto:kidehen@openlinksw.com>> wrote:
>>
>>     On 2/9/09 10:12 AM, Juan Sequeda wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>         Do you know any solutions that produce RDF Linked Data from
>>>         RDBMS sources? Any that exist right now and can deliver such
>>>         capability across any ODBC or JDBC accessible DBMS? What
>>>         about such a thing even going as far as providing working
>>>         examples for every major DBMS engine?
>>>
>>>
>>>     Not yet... unfortunately. There are still open research
>>>     problems: ontology matching, linking algorithms. All of this is
>>>     needed to have such a system.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>         At what time in the future do you expect such a product to
>>>         emerge?
>>>
>>>
>>>     When such a system exist, is when we can say that everybody is
>>>     on the semantic web. Time... how about by the time I finish my
>>>     PhD. :P
>>>
>>>
>>     Well you've just made my point re. Cognitive Dissonance :-(
>>
>>
>> I don't agree. I am clearly stating a problem, and the paths needed 
>> for it to be solved. How am I contradicting myself?
>>
>> Ok.. I believe I see where the confusion is. Of course virtuoso and 
>> d2r server publish RDF linked data, etc. What I mean is that it does 
>> not happen in an automatic fashion. That is needed! At least for all 
>> my web developer colleagues who will never invest time in learning 
>> about virtuoso and d2r server.
>>
>>
>>
>>     Kingsley
>>
>>
>>     -- 
>>
>>
>>     Regards,
>>
>>     Kingsley Idehen	      Weblog:http://www.openlinksw.com/blog/~kidehen  <http://www.openlinksw.com/blog/%7Ekidehen>
>>     President&  CEO
>>     OpenLink Software     Web:http://www.openlinksw.com
>>
>>
>>
>>            
>>
>>
>
>
> http://www.langegger.at
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> Dipl.-Ing.(FH) Andreas Langegger
> Institute for Applied Knowledge Processing
> Johannes Kepler University Linz
> A-4040 Linz, Altenberger Straße 69
>
>
>
>


-- 


Regards,

Kingsley Idehen	      Weblog: http://www.openlinksw.com/blog/~kidehen
President&  CEO
OpenLink Software     Web: http://www.openlinksw.com