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[I18N ITS] Teleconference Minutes 2006-07-21

From: Felix Sasaki <fsasaki@w3.org>
Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2006 00:42:05 +0900
Message-ID: <44C0F5CD.8020309@w3.org>
To: public-i18n-its@w3.org
... are at http://www.w3.org/2006/07/21-i18nits-minutes.html

and below as text.


- Felix


   [1]W3C

      [1] http://www.w3.org/

        i18n ITS working group (additional call for LC issues)

21 Jul 2006

   [2]Agenda

      [2]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-i18n-its/2006JulSep/0097.html

   See also: [3]IRC log

      [3] http://www.w3.org/2006/07/21-i18nits-irc

Attendees

   Present
          Christian, Felix, Richard, Yves

   Regrets
   Chair
          Yves

   Scribe
          Felix

Contents

     * [4]Topics
         1. [5]http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3465
         2. [6]http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3466
         3. [7]language related discussion
         4. [8]http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3482
         5. [9]http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3487
         6. [10]http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3488
         7. [11]http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3489
         8. [12]http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3490
         9. [13]http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3491
        10. [14]http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3492
     * [15]Summary of Action Items
     _________________________________________________________

   Hi Yves

   Would it be o.k. with you to take
   [16]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-i18n-its/2006JulSep/0
   099.html as the agenda, and go through I18NCORE comment?

     [16]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-i18n-its/2006JulSep/0099.html

   (the list should be complete now) in any order, as you like

   <YvesS> Hi Felix. Yes.

   great, tx.

   <YvesS>
   [17]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-i18n-its/2006JulSep/0
   099.html

     [17]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-i18n-its/2006JulSep/0099.html

   Yves: this is the list of all issues
   ... i18ncore issues are marked as I18NCORE
   ... last time we discussed the editorial ones

[18]http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3465

     [18] http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3465

   "default for directionality: ltr"

   Yves: is it in the default table?

   Felix: yes

   Yves: so: resolved

   Richard: the default table will be added to the spec which lists the
   defaults

   Yves: we will add a column to the table in 6.1

[19]http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3466

     [19] http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3466

   Felix: we don't need to add global rules to XHTML 1.1
   ... and the global pointing for ruby is a feature as risk, I think
   ... because ruby is used in user agents, which might not process
   XPath

   Richard: you would not implement ruby by global rules alone

   [20]http://www.w3.org/TR/ruby/#conformance

     [20] http://www.w3.org/TR/ruby/#conformance

   Felix: I think it is hard to fulfill the interpreter criterion:

   "An interpreter is a conforming simple ruby markup interpreter if it
   rejects nonconforming simple ruby markup, accepts conforming simple
   ruby markup, and, where it interprets ruby markup, does so in
   accordance with this specification."

   Richard: do you disagree that global ruby is useful?

   Felix: it is not useful if you apply the same conformance criteria

   Richard: if you point to content and say
   ... "this is ruby text"
   ... you say that this is used as local ruby text markup
   ... if you point to markup that does not have the distinction, it
   makes not sense to identify ruby markup

   Felix: so you mean only the structure?

   Richard: yes

   [Discussion on ruby, no conclusion yet]

   Richard: the conformance section could say "we conform for ruby
   markup"

   Yves: looking at ruby conformance: how can something be conformant
   with all of this?

   Richard: it describes conformance for different things
   ... ITS is just "document" at the moment

   <scribe> ACTION: Felix to make his position on ruby more clearer in
   a mail [recorded in
   [21]http://www.w3.org/2006/07/21-i18nits-minutes.html#action01]

language related discussion

   <YvesS>
   [22]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-its/2006JulSep/0
   072.html

     [22]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-its/2006JulSep/0072.html

   yves summarizes the mail

   [[I also think it would be logical that our (non-normative) ITS
   schemas includes xml:lang where appropriate, so, for example, a user

   gets the xml:lang attribute listed when s/he is using <locInfo>.

   ]]

   Felix: Richard, is this a step in the right direction?

   Richard: yes, but it needs to be in the spec as well
   ... I need text that says that xml:lang can be used
   ... the productions does not include all attributes, e.g. not
   xml:lang
   ... so to have a note which talks about xml:lang

   Yves: it would be good at the langRule element

   <scribe> ACTION: Yves to write s.t. about xml:lang in the langRule
   section [recorded in
   [23]http://www.w3.org/2006/07/21-i18nits-minutes.html#action02]

   <scribe> ACTION: Felix to draft s.t. about xml:lang in general
   [recorded in
   [24]http://www.w3.org/2006/07/21-i18nits-minutes.html#action03]

[25]http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3482

     [25] http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3482

   "inheritance of translate information"

   [[Section 6.2: The inheritance of translate information by child
   elements but not

   attributes is mentioned in 6.1, but should also be mentioned in 6.2
   with

   reference to the global rules as well as the local ones.

   ]]

   Yves: we may have addressed that through one comment from someone
   else
   ... I posted a mail from someone else
   ... and he agreed

   Richard: the issue here is mostly editorial

   Yves: see [26]http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3362
   ... that is related

     [26] http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3362

   Proposed text from Yves:

   [[Locally, translatability is expressed with a translate attribute
   with the

   values "yes" or "no" The selection is the textual content of the
   element,

   including child elements, but excluding attributes. It is not
   possible to

   override the translatability of attributes using local markup. This
   limitation

   is consistent with the adviced practice of not using translatable
   attributes.]]

   Yves: that might help with i18n core concerns?

   Richard: this is only editorial

   Yves: only rewording necessary

   Richard: you will come back with an answer to i18n core, and we will
   check the rewording

[27]http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3487

     [27] http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3487

   Yves: also solved by reworking the examples

   Richard: o.k.

[28]http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3488

     [28] http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3488

   Yves: I'm fine with the rewording

   Christian: we looked at it already

[29]http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3489

     [29] http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3489

   Yves: a suggestion. Up to the editors

   Christian: ITS to me also has to do with editing tools
   ... you could say editing tools may give their authors two types of
   information

   Yves: o.k. to leave this to the editors?

   Christian: yes

[30]http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3490

     [30] http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3490

   Yves: I would agree: 22 could be a better example
   ... why do you not like 23?

   Richard: it was confusing because there is no explanation that s.t.
   is in a different file

   Yves: no, but (sorry, scribe missed)

   (Richard and Yves discuss the example)

   Richard: I still don't think the example is clear

   <scribe> ACTION: Yves to review the examples 22 and 23 [recorded in
   [31]http://www.w3.org/2006/07/21-i18nits-minutes.html#action04]

   Richard: if you just said in a bit of text "this is useful, because
   of how the variable is used ..."

   Christian: If you would have a string like "cannot find the
   component X"
   ... you can say the "X" is a "management system" or s.t. else

   Richard: I had similar thoughts
   ... I wrote an article for composite messages

   <r12a>
   [32]http://www.w3.org/International/articles/composite-messages/

     [32] http://www.w3.org/International/articles/composite-messages/

   Richard: that might provide examples

   <r12a> [33]http://www.w3.org/International/articles/text-reuse/

     [33] http://www.w3.org/International/articles/text-reuse/

[34]http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3491

     [34] http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3491

   Yves: I was thinking about writing the paragraphs at some point

   <scribe> ACTION: Yves to write paragraphs for
   [35]http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3491 recorded in
   [36]http://www.w3.org/2006/07/21-i18nits-minutes.html#action05]

     [35] http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3491

[37]http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3492

     [37] http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3492

   fine with everybody

   and: adjourned

Summary of Action Items

   [NEW] ACTION: Felix to draft s.t. about xml:lang in general
   [recorded in
   [38]http://www.w3.org/2006/07/21-i18nits-minutes.html#action03]
   [NEW] ACTION: Felix to make his position on ruby more clearer in a
   mail [recorded in
   [39]http://www.w3.org/2006/07/21-i18nits-minutes.html#action01]
   [NEW] ACTION: Yves to review the examples 22 and 23 [recorded in
   [40]http://www.w3.org/2006/07/21-i18nits-minutes.html#action04]
   [NEW] ACTION: Yves to write paragraphs for
   [41]http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3491 recorded in
   [42]http://www.w3.org/2006/07/21-i18nits-minutes.html#action05]
   [NEW] ACTION: Yves to write s.t. about xml:lang in the langRule
   section [recorded in
   [43]http://www.w3.org/2006/07/21-i18nits-minutes.html#action02]

     [41] http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3491

   [End of minutes]
     _________________________________________________________


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