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Minutes 2005-09-28-i18n-ITS telefone conference

From: Felix Sasaki <fsasaki@w3.org>
Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 00:54:11 +0900
To: "public-i18n-its@w3.org" <public-i18n-its@w3.org>
Message-ID: <op.sxtk4le1x1753t@ibm-60d333fc0ec>
Hi all,

The minutes of the 2005-09-28-i18n-ITS telefone conference are at

http://www.w3.org/2005/09/28-i18n-minutes.html

and attached to this mail.


Best,

Felix
   [1]W3C

      [1] http://www.w3.org/

                                  I18N ITS WG

28 Sep 2005

   See also: [2]IRC log

      [2] http://www.w3.org/2005/09/28-i18n-irc

Attendees

   Present
          Felix, Christian, Goutam, Richard, Sebastian, Yves

   Regrets
   Chair
          Yves

   Scribe
          Felix

Contents

     * [3]Topics
         1. [4]Action Items
         2. [5]F2f meeting
         3. [6]Do we need 'translate-options'?
         4. [7]Localization properties
         5. [8]Other business
         6. [9]Next telefone conference
     * [10]Summary of Action Items

     _________________________________________________________________

Action Items

   <scribe> ACTION: RI to contact person from W3C about feedback from non-wg
   members (PENDING) [recorded in
   [11]http://www.w3.org/2005/09/28-i18n-minutes.html#action01]

   <scribe> ACTION: FS to contact person for ATOM (PENDING) [recorded in
   [12]http://www.w3.org/2005/09/28-i18n-minutes.html#action02]

   <YvesS>
   [13]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-i18n-its/2005JulSep/0135.html

     [13] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-i18n-its/2005JulSep/0135.html

   <scribe> ACTION: CL to use ODD to specify the indicator of translatability
   implementation (PENDING) [recorded in
   [14]http://www.w3.org/2005/09/28-i18n-minutes.html#action03]

   <scribe> ACTION: Editors to add the constraints requirements to the scope
   sensitive requirements (PENDING) [recorded in
   [15]http://www.w3.org/2005/09/28-i18n-minutes.html#action04]

   <scribe> ACTION: FS to check inheritance for xml:lang (as part of his work
   on a wiki on xml:lang for the i18n core WG) (PENDING) [recorded in
   [16]http://www.w3.org/2005/09/28-i18n-minutes.html#action05]

   <scribe> ACTION: Editors to take
   [17]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-i18n-its/2005JulSep/0135.html
   into account as they start editing the its spec [recorded in
   [18]http://www.w3.org/2005/09/28-i18n-minutes.html#action06]

     [17] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-i18n-its/2005JulSep/0135.html

   <scribe> ACTION: FS to use ODD to specify Ruby implementation (DONE)
   recorded in [19]http://www.w3.org/2005/09/28-i18n-minutes.html#action07]

   <scribe> ACTION: SR to help FS and CL to set up ODD processing environment
   (DONE) [recorded in
   [20]http://www.w3.org/2005/09/28-i18n-minutes.html#action08]

   <scribe> ACTION: YS to list possible constraints and values for them
   (PENDING) [recorded in
   [21]http://www.w3.org/2005/09/28-i18n-minutes.html#action09]

   <scribe> ACTION: FS to ask W3C if there is a methodology for mapping
   existing / under development (PENDING) [recorded in
   [22]http://www.w3.org/2005/09/28-i18n-minutes.html#action10]

   <scribe> ACTION: FS to make proposals by mail for a shortcut for the
   namespace of the ITS specification Working Draft (PENDING) [recorded in
   [23]http://www.w3.org/2005/09/28-i18n-minutes.html#action11]

   <scribe> ACTION: YS to post message about meeting f2f Dec-14 to 16 (noon)
   (DONE) [recorded in
   [24]http://www.w3.org/2005/09/28-i18n-minutes.html#action12]

   <scribe> ACTION: RI to check on the possibility for hosting at the w3c
   office in Oxford (DONE) [recorded in
   [25]http://www.w3.org/2005/09/28-i18n-minutes.html#action13]

   <scribe> ACTION: GS to continue work on the document he started to see if we
   should put that into the guidelines (DONE) [recorded in
   [26]http://www.w3.org/2005/09/28-i18n-minutes.html#action14]

   <scribe> ACTION: SR to introduce to the working group the l10n / i18n
   aspects of the TEI (PENDING) [recorded in
   [27]http://www.w3.org/2005/09/28-i18n-minutes.html#action15]

   <scribe> ACTION: SR to put a comment on
   [28]http://esw.w3.org/topic/its0509ReqNestedElements in the wiki (PENDING)
   recorded in [29]http://www.w3.org/2005/09/28-i18n-minutes.html#action16]

     [28] http://esw.w3.org/topic/its0509ReqNestedElements

   <scribe> ACTION: FS To contact Deborah A. Lapeyre (DITA committee) about the
   relation between its / DITA (PENDING) [recorded in
   [30]http://www.w3.org/2005/09/28-i18n-minutes.html#action17]

F2f meeting

   6-8 of december as f2f days?

   Yves: starting on the 6, for three days

   <scribe> ACTION: yves to Post the modification of the f2f date: 6-8 december
   recorded in [31]http://www.w3.org/2005/09/28-i18n-minutes.html#action18]

Do we need 'translate-options'?

   Yves: We decided on the translate attribute if we would have only a yes no
   value
   ... or also translate-options with further information
   ... I wanted to discuss that now and gather opinions
   ... advantage of one attribute assures portability

   CL: we saw a relationship between this data category and scoping
   ... without a general solution for scoping we might not have dealt with it
   completely
   ... I type in a proposal:

   <chriLi> translateInclude=".|x"

   <chriLi> transExclude=".|x"

   <chriLi> translation-detail="[a, b]"

   Cl: We need a container to specify like what I just typed
   ... the first part refers to what should be translated
   ... the second part contains the information we give

   <chriLi> trainslation-detail="[definition, "please use standard
   terminology"]"

   Yves: parts of the proposal sound counter intuitive than "normal" xml
   ... having a specific scope for translation seems to be redundant

   <YvesS> FS: ..general solution would be easier to adapt

   <YvesS> .. loc notes would be already covered

   FS: also translation details might be defined as a general "detail"
   description

   CL: let's have an example

   <chriLi> translateInclude="title, @publisher"

   <its:info scope="title"

   <its:info scope="@publishe

   containingn its:detail

   <chriLi> <bookInfo translateInclude="., @title"

   <its:info scope="/book/div[$1\47]/bookinfo/@publishe

   <chriLi> <bookInfo translateInclude="., @title">

   <chriLi> <bookInfo translateInclude=". and @title">

   YS: we have to make a difference between meta information in general (e.g.
   in a separate file) and information on a specific element e.g. for
   overriding

   <chriLi> <bookInfo translateInclude=". UNION @title">

   <chriLi> translateInclude="\\bookInfo union @title

   URI for union [32]http://www.w3.org/TR/xpath-functions/#func-union

     [32] http://www.w3.org/TR/xpath-functions/#func-union

   RI: We could also have comma seperated values

   <SebastianR> union is xpath2-specific, isn't it? its just sugar

   FS: Sebastian, yes, it is sugar :)

   YS: we have to be careful not to have too many "specific" extensions
   ... and be close to xml

   FS: I would like to adopt CL ideas on a general level, not bound only to the
   translation topic

   CL: YS asked: should we have the translation extension in the ITS NS?
   ... and the other question was: should we have more values than "yes" and
   "no"
   ... it would be good to have at least a subset of XPath for the translation
   issue

   YS: we should have a wiki page for this
   ... we need to discuss the scoping mechanism
   ... and the problem of attribute - do we address them?

   <scribe> ACTION: YS to set up a wiki page on the scoping mechanism and the
   extension mechanism [recorded in
   [33]http://www.w3.org/2005/09/28-i18n-minutes.html#action19]

Localization properties

   FS: should we have only a container for loc properties or also more?

   YS: The hard part is how to draw the border between these 2

   RI: we said that ITS work may be hard if we don't know the loc properties
   requirements are
   ... but we said we will not define the loc prop mechanism
   ... there is a lot of overlap between our requirements and loc properties
   ... we thought we would work together with the people who define loc pros

   YS: but they don't define it, so we have nobody to talk to

   FS: Maybe we have to draw the border between the 2 on a case to case basis -
   for now

   YS: yes

   RI: we said at the f2f that there is a difference between having an
   attribute at an element saying translate="yes"
   ... vs. saying "all p elements of class x are translatable"
   ... which is more close to loc properties

   <scribe> ACTION: start writing the common sensus of the translation req and
   add info on further possibilities [recorded in
   [34]http://www.w3.org/2005/09/28-i18n-minutes.html#action20]

Other business

   CL: still have problems with xslt for xmlspec

   RI: it would be enough to validate the xml
   ... and use saxon

   CL: Will do

Next telefone conference

   Christian?

Summary of Action Items

   [NEW] ACTION: Editors to take
   [35]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-i18n-its/2005JulSep/0135.html
   into account as they start editing the its spec [recorded in
   [36]http://www.w3.org/2005/09/28-i18n-minutes.html#action06]
   [NEW] ACTION: start writing the common sensus of the translation req and add
   info on further possibilities [recorded in
   [37]http://www.w3.org/2005/09/28-i18n-minutes.html#action20]
   [NEW] ACTION: YS to set up a wiki page on the scoping mechanism and the
   extension mechanism [recorded in
   [38]http://www.w3.org/2005/09/28-i18n-minutes.html#action19]
   [NEW] ACTION: yves to Post the modification of the f2f date: 6-8 december
   recorded in [39]http://www.w3.org/2005/09/28-i18n-minutes.html#action18]

     [35] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-i18n-its/2005JulSep/0135.html

   [PENDING] ACTION: CL to use ODD to specify the indicator of translatability
   implementation [recorded in
   [40]http://www.w3.org/2005/09/28-i18n-minutes.html#action03]
   [PENDING] ACTION: Editors to add the constraints requirements to the scope
   sensitive requirements [recorded in
   [41]http://www.w3.org/2005/09/28-i18n-minutes.html#action04]
   [PENDING] ACTION: FS to ask W3C if there is a methodology for mapping
   existing / under development [recorded in
   [42]http://www.w3.org/2005/09/28-i18n-minutes.html#action10]
   [PENDING] ACTION: FS to check inheritance for xml:lang (as part of his work
   on a wiki on xml:lang for the i18n core WG) [recorded in
   [43]http://www.w3.org/2005/09/28-i18n-minutes.html#action05]
   [PENDING] ACTION: FS To contact Deborah A. Lapeyre (DITA committee) about
   the relation between its / DITA [recorded in
   [44]http://www.w3.org/2005/09/28-i18n-minutes.html#action17]
   [PENDING] ACTION: FS to contact person for ATOM [recorded in
   [45]http://www.w3.org/2005/09/28-i18n-minutes.html#action02]
   [PENDING] ACTION: FS to make proposals by mail for a shortcut for the
   namespace of the ITS specification Working Draft [recorded in
   [46]http://www.w3.org/2005/09/28-i18n-minutes.html#action11]
   [PENDING] ACTION: RI to contact person from W3C about feedback from non-wg
   members [recorded in
   [47]http://www.w3.org/2005/09/28-i18n-minutes.html#action01]
   [PENDING] ACTION: SR to introduce to the working group the l10n / i18n
   aspects of the TEI [recorded in
   [48]http://www.w3.org/2005/09/28-i18n-minutes.html#action15]
   [PENDING] ACTION: SR to put a comment on
   [49]http://esw.w3.org/topic/its0509ReqNestedElements in the wiki recorded
   in [50]http://www.w3.org/2005/09/28-i18n-minutes.html#action16]
   [PENDING] ACTION: YS to list possible constraints and values for them
   recorded in [51]http://www.w3.org/2005/09/28-i18n-minutes.html#action09]

     [49] http://esw.w3.org/topic/its0509ReqNestedElements

   [DONE] ACTION: FS to use ODD to specify Ruby implementation [recorded in
   [52]http://www.w3.org/2005/09/28-i18n-minutes.html#action07]
   [DONE] ACTION: GS to continue work on the document he started to see if we
   should put that into the guidelines [recorded in
   [53]http://www.w3.org/2005/09/28-i18n-minutes.html#action14]
   [DONE] ACTION: RI to check on the possibility for hosting at the w3c office
   in Oxford [recorded in
   [54]http://www.w3.org/2005/09/28-i18n-minutes.html#action13]
   [DONE] ACTION: SR to help FS and CL to set up ODD processing environment
   recorded in [55]http://www.w3.org/2005/09/28-i18n-minutes.html#action08]
   [DONE] ACTION: YS to post message about meeting f2f Dec-14 to 16 (noon)
   recorded in [56]http://www.w3.org/2005/09/28-i18n-minutes.html#action12]

   [End of minutes]

     _________________________________________________________________


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