[1]W3C [1] http://www.w3.org/ I18N ITS WG 28 Sep 2005 See also: [2]IRC log [2] http://www.w3.org/2005/09/28-i18n-irc Attendees Present Felix, Christian, Goutam, Richard, Sebastian, Yves Regrets Chair Yves Scribe Felix Contents * [3]Topics 1. [4]Action Items 2. [5]F2f meeting 3. [6]Do we need 'translate-options'? 4. [7]Localization properties 5. [8]Other business 6. [9]Next telefone conference * [10]Summary of Action Items _________________________________________________________________ Action Items ACTION: RI to contact person from W3C about feedback from non-wg members (PENDING) [recorded in [11]http://www.w3.org/2005/09/28-i18n-minutes.html#action01] ACTION: FS to contact person for ATOM (PENDING) [recorded in [12]http://www.w3.org/2005/09/28-i18n-minutes.html#action02] [13]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-i18n-its/2005JulSep/0135.html [13] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-i18n-its/2005JulSep/0135.html ACTION: CL to use ODD to specify the indicator of translatability implementation (PENDING) [recorded in [14]http://www.w3.org/2005/09/28-i18n-minutes.html#action03] ACTION: Editors to add the constraints requirements to the scope sensitive requirements (PENDING) [recorded in [15]http://www.w3.org/2005/09/28-i18n-minutes.html#action04] ACTION: FS to check inheritance for xml:lang (as part of his work on a wiki on xml:lang for the i18n core WG) (PENDING) [recorded in [16]http://www.w3.org/2005/09/28-i18n-minutes.html#action05] ACTION: Editors to take [17]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-i18n-its/2005JulSep/0135.html into account as they start editing the its spec [recorded in [18]http://www.w3.org/2005/09/28-i18n-minutes.html#action06] [17] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-i18n-its/2005JulSep/0135.html ACTION: FS to use ODD to specify Ruby implementation (DONE) recorded in [19]http://www.w3.org/2005/09/28-i18n-minutes.html#action07] ACTION: SR to help FS and CL to set up ODD processing environment (DONE) [recorded in [20]http://www.w3.org/2005/09/28-i18n-minutes.html#action08] ACTION: YS to list possible constraints and values for them (PENDING) [recorded in [21]http://www.w3.org/2005/09/28-i18n-minutes.html#action09] ACTION: FS to ask W3C if there is a methodology for mapping existing / under development (PENDING) [recorded in [22]http://www.w3.org/2005/09/28-i18n-minutes.html#action10] ACTION: FS to make proposals by mail for a shortcut for the namespace of the ITS specification Working Draft (PENDING) [recorded in [23]http://www.w3.org/2005/09/28-i18n-minutes.html#action11] ACTION: YS to post message about meeting f2f Dec-14 to 16 (noon) (DONE) [recorded in [24]http://www.w3.org/2005/09/28-i18n-minutes.html#action12] ACTION: RI to check on the possibility for hosting at the w3c office in Oxford (DONE) [recorded in [25]http://www.w3.org/2005/09/28-i18n-minutes.html#action13] ACTION: GS to continue work on the document he started to see if we should put that into the guidelines (DONE) [recorded in [26]http://www.w3.org/2005/09/28-i18n-minutes.html#action14] ACTION: SR to introduce to the working group the l10n / i18n aspects of the TEI (PENDING) [recorded in [27]http://www.w3.org/2005/09/28-i18n-minutes.html#action15] ACTION: SR to put a comment on [28]http://esw.w3.org/topic/its0509ReqNestedElements in the wiki (PENDING) recorded in [29]http://www.w3.org/2005/09/28-i18n-minutes.html#action16] [28] http://esw.w3.org/topic/its0509ReqNestedElements ACTION: FS To contact Deborah A. Lapeyre (DITA committee) about the relation between its / DITA (PENDING) [recorded in [30]http://www.w3.org/2005/09/28-i18n-minutes.html#action17] F2f meeting 6-8 of december as f2f days? Yves: starting on the 6, for three days ACTION: yves to Post the modification of the f2f date: 6-8 december recorded in [31]http://www.w3.org/2005/09/28-i18n-minutes.html#action18] Do we need 'translate-options'? Yves: We decided on the translate attribute if we would have only a yes no value ... or also translate-options with further information ... I wanted to discuss that now and gather opinions ... advantage of one attribute assures portability CL: we saw a relationship between this data category and scoping ... without a general solution for scoping we might not have dealt with it completely ... I type in a proposal: translateInclude=".|x" transExclude=".|x" translation-detail="[a, b]" Cl: We need a container to specify like what I just typed ... the first part refers to what should be translated ... the second part contains the information we give trainslation-detail="[definition, "please use standard terminology"]" Yves: parts of the proposal sound counter intuitive than "normal" xml ... having a specific scope for translation seems to be redundant FS: ..general solution would be easier to adapt .. loc notes would be already covered FS: also translation details might be defined as a general "detail" description CL: let's have an example translateInclude="title, @publisher" YS: we have to make a difference between meta information in general (e.g. in a separate file) and information on a specific element e.g. for overriding translateInclude="\\bookInfo union @title URI for union [32]http://www.w3.org/TR/xpath-functions/#func-union [32] http://www.w3.org/TR/xpath-functions/#func-union RI: We could also have comma seperated values union is xpath2-specific, isn't it? its just sugar FS: Sebastian, yes, it is sugar :) YS: we have to be careful not to have too many "specific" extensions ... and be close to xml FS: I would like to adopt CL ideas on a general level, not bound only to the translation topic CL: YS asked: should we have the translation extension in the ITS NS? ... and the other question was: should we have more values than "yes" and "no" ... it would be good to have at least a subset of XPath for the translation issue YS: we should have a wiki page for this ... we need to discuss the scoping mechanism ... and the problem of attribute - do we address them? ACTION: YS to set up a wiki page on the scoping mechanism and the extension mechanism [recorded in [33]http://www.w3.org/2005/09/28-i18n-minutes.html#action19] Localization properties FS: should we have only a container for loc properties or also more? YS: The hard part is how to draw the border between these 2 RI: we said that ITS work may be hard if we don't know the loc properties requirements are ... but we said we will not define the loc prop mechanism ... there is a lot of overlap between our requirements and loc properties ... we thought we would work together with the people who define loc pros YS: but they don't define it, so we have nobody to talk to FS: Maybe we have to draw the border between the 2 on a case to case basis - for now YS: yes RI: we said at the f2f that there is a difference between having an attribute at an element saying translate="yes" ... vs. saying "all p elements of class x are translatable" ... which is more close to loc properties ACTION: start writing the common sensus of the translation req and add info on further possibilities [recorded in [34]http://www.w3.org/2005/09/28-i18n-minutes.html#action20] Other business CL: still have problems with xslt for xmlspec RI: it would be enough to validate the xml ... and use saxon CL: Will do Next telefone conference Christian? Summary of Action Items [NEW] ACTION: Editors to take [35]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-i18n-its/2005JulSep/0135.html into account as they start editing the its spec [recorded in [36]http://www.w3.org/2005/09/28-i18n-minutes.html#action06] [NEW] ACTION: start writing the common sensus of the translation req and add info on further possibilities [recorded in [37]http://www.w3.org/2005/09/28-i18n-minutes.html#action20] [NEW] ACTION: YS to set up a wiki page on the scoping mechanism and the extension mechanism [recorded in [38]http://www.w3.org/2005/09/28-i18n-minutes.html#action19] [NEW] ACTION: yves to Post the modification of the f2f date: 6-8 december recorded in [39]http://www.w3.org/2005/09/28-i18n-minutes.html#action18] [35] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-i18n-its/2005JulSep/0135.html [PENDING] ACTION: CL to use ODD to specify the indicator of translatability implementation [recorded in [40]http://www.w3.org/2005/09/28-i18n-minutes.html#action03] [PENDING] ACTION: Editors to add the constraints requirements to the scope sensitive requirements [recorded in [41]http://www.w3.org/2005/09/28-i18n-minutes.html#action04] [PENDING] ACTION: FS to ask W3C if there is a methodology for mapping existing / under development [recorded in [42]http://www.w3.org/2005/09/28-i18n-minutes.html#action10] [PENDING] ACTION: FS to check inheritance for xml:lang (as part of his work on a wiki on xml:lang for the i18n core WG) [recorded in [43]http://www.w3.org/2005/09/28-i18n-minutes.html#action05] [PENDING] ACTION: FS To contact Deborah A. Lapeyre (DITA committee) about the relation between its / DITA [recorded in [44]http://www.w3.org/2005/09/28-i18n-minutes.html#action17] [PENDING] ACTION: FS to contact person for ATOM [recorded in [45]http://www.w3.org/2005/09/28-i18n-minutes.html#action02] [PENDING] ACTION: FS to make proposals by mail for a shortcut for the namespace of the ITS specification Working Draft [recorded in [46]http://www.w3.org/2005/09/28-i18n-minutes.html#action11] [PENDING] ACTION: RI to contact person from W3C about feedback from non-wg members [recorded in [47]http://www.w3.org/2005/09/28-i18n-minutes.html#action01] [PENDING] ACTION: SR to introduce to the working group the l10n / i18n aspects of the TEI [recorded in [48]http://www.w3.org/2005/09/28-i18n-minutes.html#action15] [PENDING] ACTION: SR to put a comment on [49]http://esw.w3.org/topic/its0509ReqNestedElements in the wiki recorded in [50]http://www.w3.org/2005/09/28-i18n-minutes.html#action16] [PENDING] ACTION: YS to list possible constraints and values for them recorded in [51]http://www.w3.org/2005/09/28-i18n-minutes.html#action09] [49] http://esw.w3.org/topic/its0509ReqNestedElements [DONE] ACTION: FS to use ODD to specify Ruby implementation [recorded in [52]http://www.w3.org/2005/09/28-i18n-minutes.html#action07] [DONE] ACTION: GS to continue work on the document he started to see if we should put that into the guidelines [recorded in [53]http://www.w3.org/2005/09/28-i18n-minutes.html#action14] [DONE] ACTION: RI to check on the possibility for hosting at the w3c office in Oxford [recorded in [54]http://www.w3.org/2005/09/28-i18n-minutes.html#action13] [DONE] ACTION: SR to help FS and CL to set up ODD processing environment recorded in [55]http://www.w3.org/2005/09/28-i18n-minutes.html#action08] [DONE] ACTION: YS to post message about meeting f2f Dec-14 to 16 (noon) recorded in [56]http://www.w3.org/2005/09/28-i18n-minutes.html#action12] [End of minutes] _________________________________________________________________ Minutes formatted by David Booth's [57]scribe.perl version 1.127 ([58]CVS log) $Date: 2005/09/28 15:15:10 $ [57] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm [58] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2002/scribe/