W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > public-i18n-core@w3.org > January to March 2011

RE: Korean-specific CSS issues to be discussed

From: 이원석 <wslee@etri.re.kr>
Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2011 02:30:55 +0900
Message-ID: <B4EAD1122C31304099A5CDEA5447210F023A28A6@email2>
To: "Kang-Hao (Kenny) Lu" <kennyluck@w3.org>, "HTML Korean Interest Group" <public-html-ig-ko@w3.org>
Cc: "ML public-i18n-core" <public-i18n-core@w3.org>, "fantasai" <fantasai.lists@inkedblade.net>
Hi. Kenny.
This is Wonsuk Lee, Chair of HTML5 KIG(Korean Interest Group).
Most of all thanks a lot for your kind invitation ;)
I believe HTML5 KIG have to be involved in these valuable works of W3C you listed up.

I think HTML KIG has a lot of experts who have long experiences on the Web technology and standard.
So after discussed these issues within HTML5 KIG, we will give some feedbacks to the mailing list you said.
However I think probably it needs appropriate time to make a consensus about our opinions in the group.

If you have additional issues related with Korean-specific features, please let us know.
It's more than welcome.

Best regards,
Wonsuk.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: public-html-ig-ko-request@w3.org [mailto:public-html-ig-ko-
> request@w3.org] On Behalf Of Kang-Hao (Kenny) Lu
> Sent: Wednesday, January 19, 2011 11:58 PM
> To: HTML Korean Interest Group
> Cc: ML public-i18n-core; fantasai
> Subject: Korean-specific CSS issues to be discussed
> 
> 
> Hello Korean friends,
> 
> My name is Kang-Hao (Kenny) Lu and I am a Chinese speaker working for
> W3C on, partially, internationalization on Web. It's very proud to see
> you having fruitful discussion about cutting edge HTML5 features and
> news (like the one about h.264 :) ). As CSS is essential to the Web but
> it is still far from complete in terms of its multilingual support, I
> would like to invite you to review CSS specs that have Korean-specific
> features. Notably,	
> 
> * CSS 3 Text[1] - a CSS module for multilingual text support, currently
> under heavy revision.
> * CSS 3 List[2] - a CSS module for lists. It has not been updated for
> many years but CSS WG just appointed a new editor to work on it
> [1] http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css3-text/

> [2] http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css3-lists/

> 
> To review the specs, basically you can just do a text search on the
> keywords "Korean", "Hangul" to find the relevant parts. Please don't be
> surprised when you find unexpected description of Korean (I was
> surprised the first time I read the parts about Chinese :) ) because the
> editors wouldn't be able to know every detail about every language, and
> that's why we need your help. There are actually several specific
> questions in these specs, but of course your discussions are not limited
> to these:
> 
> 1.
> For vertical writing in Korean, on which side do you put an underline
> on. The current draft says it should be put on the right (see
> 'text-underline-postion: auto' [3]), but my experiment[4][5][6] with IE
> shows something different. Which is correct? A real world picture, even
> from an old book, might tell a lot.
> 
> [3] http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css3-text/#text-underline-position

> [4] http://www.w3.org/People/kennyluck/Test/underline-pos

> [5] http://www.w3.org/People/kennyluck/Test/underline-pos.ie7

> (the forces the page to be displayed in IE7 legacy mode and you can see
> the underline for Japanese is on the right but it's on the left for Korean)
> [6] http://www.w3.org/People/kennyluck/Test/underline-pos.ie8

> 
> 2.
> For CSS 3 List, several changes have been suggested by a researcher from
> Microsoft[7]. You are encouraged to review the document as a whole. But
> the editor has a particular concern about 'hangul-legal'. Here's our
> conversation
> 
> [[
> Tabatkins: kennyluck: Thanks a lot for the pointer back to that document
> about cjk fixes!  I had forgetten about it.  Question for you guys when
> you review - is it intentional that hangul-legal doesn't have it's own
> version of the second digit marker?  Right now only the second digit
> marker, and the digits themselves, are falling back to cjk-ideographic.
> That feels like a possible error.
> kennyluck: TabAtkins: I am not a Korean, but I my guess is that
> Hangul-legal uses a tweak version of the cjk-ideographic algorithm.
> kennyluck: 3. For each group, ignoring digits that have the value zero,
> append the second
> kennyluck: digit marker to the second digit, the third digit marker to
> the third digit, and
> kennyluck: the fourth digit marker to the fourth digit. These markers
> are defined in the
> kennyluck: tables for the specific numbering systems. The first digit
> has no marker.
> kennyluck: Perhaps "append the second digit marker to the second digit"
> does not apply to Hangul-legal, since it does not have it's version of
> the second digit marker.
> kennyluck: so for example, if 40032 is to converted to Hangul-legal.
> kennyluck: the "32" part became 3 2 and then 서른 둘
> kennyluck: instead of 3 + the second digit marker + 2
> kennyluck: 서른 and 둘 are from the table with the caption "For values
> between 1 and 99, appropriate digits are picked from the following list
> (at most one per column) and written in descending order by value. "
> tabatkins: kennyluck: If that's true (about hangul-legal not having a
> second digit marker) I'd need that clarified.  Right now my plan is to
> just treat it as all the other cjk systems, with a fallback to the
> specified additive system for numbers below 100.
> ]]
> 
> You might also want to think about how useful this particular list type is.
> 
> [7] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2010Feb/0153  (the
> attachement)
> 
> 3.
> "word-break:keep-all" seems to be used quite often in Korean, to
> disallow breaks in a series of Hangul not separated by white spaces.
> What should happen when "word-break:keep-all" is applied with
> "word-wrap: normal"[8]? (word-wrap is a property that triggers
> "emergency wrapping" and normal is its default value)
> 
> For example, if you apply "word-break:keep-all" to, say, "안녕하세요"
> and then shrink the window until the window is smaller than "안녕하세
> 요". Should "안녕하세요" be split? I haven't tried it myself but you are
> encouraged to do some experiments.
> 
> Notice that the current draft says yes but previous version[9] said no.
> 
> [8] http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css3-text/#word-wrap

> [9]
> http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/csswg/css3-

> text/Overview.html?rev=1.17&content-type=text/html;%20charset=iso-8859-
> 1#word-wrap0
> 
> 
> You are encouraged to discuss these in Korean. After you have some
> conclusions about these issues, you are encourage to send feedback to
> the mailng list www-style [10] and Cc public-i18n-cjk [11]  list.
> 
> [10] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/

> [11] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-i18n-cjk

> 
> Sorry for not being able to write this email in Korean. Translation of
> this mail will be much appreciated!
> 
> Cheers,
> Kenny
> W3C, Internationalization Working Group Member
> 
> 
> 
> 

Received on Wednesday, 19 January 2011 17:31:56 GMT

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