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Re: [1.2T-LC] i18n comment 6: Direction and bidi-override attributes (ISSUE-2107)

From: Doug Schepers <schepers@w3.org>
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2008 11:55:39 +0200
Message-ID: <49004A1B.7020009@w3.org>
To: ishida@w3.org
CC: www-svg@w3.org, public-i18n-core@w3.org, ori@w3.org

Hi, Richard, I18N-

ishida@w3.org wrote (on 10/10/08 9:43 PM):
> Comment from the i18n review of: 
> http://www.w3.org/TR/2008/WD-SVGMobile12-20080915/
> 
> Comment 6 At http://www.w3.org/International/reviews/0810-svg-tiny/ 
> Editorial/substantive: S Tracked by: RI
> 
> Location in reviewed document: 10.4
> [httphttp://www.w3.org/TR/SVGMobile12/text.html#TextElement]
> 
> Comment: The direction and bidi-override attributes are needed to
> establish a context so that the bidi algorithm can work. My
> understanding is that this was omitted unintentionally and will be
> put back in. This comment is based on the latest editor's copy of the
> document (ie. more recent than the version most of these comments
> apply to.)

That's correct.  We've added them back in.


> "In most cases, the bidirectional algorithm from [UNICODE] produces
> the desired result automatically, and overriding this algorithm
> properly is usually quite complex. Therefore, in most cases, authors
> are discouraged from assigning values to these properties."
> 
> Actually, it's only in simple cases that you get the desired result
> automatically. For example, just put a period or other punctuation at
> the end of any Arabic or Hebrew text, and it will appear in the wrong
> place (at the right side) unless you have set the directional
> context, since the default is LTR. You could say that in *many* cases
> the bidi algorithm produces the result automatically, in which case
> it is not necessary to use the markup, but you can't say that in most
> cases authors are discouraged from using the attributes. Usually,
> however, it is not complex to use these properties, either. If you're
> working in Arabic, you'll most likely need to set the direction to
> RTL most of the time.

How about this:
[[
In many cases, the bidirectional algorithm from [UNICODE] produces the
desired result automatically, and overriding this algorithm properly is
usually quite complex. Therefore, in many cases, such as when using
Western scripts, authors are discouraged from assigning values to these
properties.  When using right-to-left languages, it is recommended that
these properties be set appropriately.
]]


> Perhaps it would be helpful to provide an example of the most
> straightforward case, ie. unicode-bidi="embed" direction="rtl", that
> people can cut&paste.

That's a great idea.  We will add a Hebrew and/or Arabic example.


> What *would really* be helpful, would be the possibility of declaring
> the direction at the top of the document, ie. in the svg element, and
> allowing it to cascade from there to all text elements. In *that*
> case, you are much less likely to need to set the properties on each
> text element, when working in a right-to-left script. (And it will
> save a lot of typing for the poor Middle Eastern authors.)

This is indeed the case, because we inherit inheritance from CSS.  How
about we add an explanatory note for authors, explaining that this can
be done?

Regards-
-Doug Schepers
W3C Team Contact, SVG and WebApps WGs
Received on Thursday, 23 October 2008 09:56:00 GMT

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