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Re: [1.2T-LC] i18n comment 6: Direction and bidi-override attributes (ISSUE-2107)

From: Ori Idan <ori@w3.org>
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2008 12:05:01 +0200
Message-ID: <65487840810230305j6bd88824q4cde41d6bbb8d3f6@mail.gmail.com>
To: "Doug Schepers" <schepers@w3.org>
Cc: ishida@w3.org, www-svg@w3.org, public-i18n-core@w3.org
Following is a short HTML example of hebrew and english.
The text says: 'hebrew with' english 'and again hebrew' where the text in
single quotes is written in hebrew.
The HTML is in UTF-8 encoding.

<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
<title>RTL example</title>
</head>
<body>
<div dir="rtl">
עברית עם english ושוב עברית
</div>
<div dir="ltr">
עברית עם english ושוב עברית
</div>
<div>
עברית עם english ושוב עברית
</div>

</body>
</html>

-- 
Ori Idan


On Thu, Oct 23, 2008 at 11:55 AM, Doug Schepers <schepers@w3.org> wrote:

> Hi, Richard, I18N-
>
> ishida@w3.org wrote (on 10/10/08 9:43 PM):
> > Comment from the i18n review of:
> > http://www.w3.org/TR/2008/WD-SVGMobile12-20080915/
> >
> > Comment 6 At http://www.w3.org/International/reviews/0810-svg-tiny/
> > Editorial/substantive: S Tracked by: RI
> >
> > Location in reviewed document: 10.4
> > [httphttp://www.w3.org/TR/SVGMobile12/text.html#TextElement]
> >
> > Comment: The direction and bidi-override attributes are needed to
> > establish a context so that the bidi algorithm can work. My
> > understanding is that this was omitted unintentionally and will be
> > put back in. This comment is based on the latest editor's copy of the
> > document (ie. more recent than the version most of these comments
> > apply to.)
>
> That's correct.  We've added them back in.
>
>
> > "In most cases, the bidirectional algorithm from [UNICODE] produces
> > the desired result automatically, and overriding this algorithm
> > properly is usually quite complex. Therefore, in most cases, authors
> > are discouraged from assigning values to these properties."
> >
> > Actually, it's only in simple cases that you get the desired result
> > automatically. For example, just put a period or other punctuation at
> > the end of any Arabic or Hebrew text, and it will appear in the wrong
> > place (at the right side) unless you have set the directional
> > context, since the default is LTR. You could say that in *many* cases
> > the bidi algorithm produces the result automatically, in which case
> > it is not necessary to use the markup, but you can't say that in most
> > cases authors are discouraged from using the attributes. Usually,
> > however, it is not complex to use these properties, either. If you're
> > working in Arabic, you'll most likely need to set the direction to
> > RTL most of the time.
>
> How about this:
> [[
> In many cases, the bidirectional algorithm from [UNICODE] produces the
> desired result automatically, and overriding this algorithm properly is
> usually quite complex. Therefore, in many cases, such as when using
> Western scripts, authors are discouraged from assigning values to these
> properties.  When using right-to-left languages, it is recommended that
> these properties be set appropriately.
> ]]
>
>
> > Perhaps it would be helpful to provide an example of the most
> > straightforward case, ie. unicode-bidi="embed" direction="rtl", that
> > people can cut&paste.
>
> That's a great idea.  We will add a Hebrew and/or Arabic example.
>
>
> > What *would really* be helpful, would be the possibility of declaring
> > the direction at the top of the document, ie. in the svg element, and
> > allowing it to cascade from there to all text elements. In *that*
> > case, you are much less likely to need to set the properties on each
> > text element, when working in a right-to-left script. (And it will
> > save a lot of typing for the poor Middle Eastern authors.)
>
> This is indeed the case, because we inherit inheritance from CSS.  How
> about we add an explanatory note for authors, explaining that this can
> be done?
>
> Regards-
> -Doug Schepers
> W3C Team Contact, SVG and WebApps WGs
>
Received on Thursday, 23 October 2008 10:05:39 GMT

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