Re: is it necessary to disambiguate (using markup) inline notes,citations and original markup? [was] use of <mark> to denote notes in quoted text

Sorry, I didn't reply to the list. here's what I sent:

On 8 September 2013 15:27, Adrian Roselli <Roselli@algonquinstudios.com>
 wrote:

> > From: Reinier Kaper [mailto:rp.kaper@gmail.com]
> > Sent: Sunday, September 08, 2013 12:52 PM
> >
> > I feel <aside>  wouldn't be semantically correct in this case
> > (the content is not tangentially related) and <note>  doesn't
> > imply a "highlighted" part of the quote.
>
> I agree, primarily because the <aside> doesn't denote what word(s) in
> particular warranted the aside, and doesn't scale to multiple (IMO).
>
>
> > The example made by Adrian with the use of a <footer>
> > element seems like a good idea, although adding id's to the
> > paragraphs doesn't seem very logical to me, I'd add it to
> > the mark.
>
> Let me expand my example the tiniest bit:
>
> <blockquote>
> I thought you said you were only going to use a half pound <mark><a
> href="#f1">[1]</a></mark> of pasta. Now whose <mark>[sic]</mark> going to
> eat all this stuff? Are you trying to make me fat? <mark><a
> href="#f2">[2]</a></mark>
>   <footer>
>      <p>John to Cindy on Saturday night.</p>
>      <p id="f1">This accounts for the 2 cups of water he boiled.</p>
>      <p id="f2">Clearly he was being snarky.</p>
>   </footer>
> </blockquote>
>
> I added an <a href> pointing to the named anchor in the <footer>. Now it
> is linked and uses a pattern that is already in use and understood on the
> web. It also makes the use of <mark> nothing more than a styling element.
>
> Or this:
>
> <blockquote>
> I thought you said you were only going to use a half pound <mark
> for="f1">[1]</mark> of pasta. Now whose <mark for="f2">[sic]</mark> going
> to eat all this stuff? Are you trying to make me fat? <mark>[2]</mark>
>   <footer>
>      <p>John to Cindy on Saturday night.</p>
>      <p id="f1">This accounts for the 2 cups of water he boiled.</p>
>      <p id="f2">Clearly he was being snarky.</p>
>   </footer>
> </blockquote>
>

I'm liking your examples and at the same time I get the same feeling you
have: it's overcomplicating things to say the least and we've kind of
veered away from the original intended use for the <mark> element.

In your examples, it doesn't even mark a piece of text at all, it simply
embodies a (foot)note, where an anchor would even suffice.


>
> Now I've added @for to the <mark> (leaning on your example), with behavior
> along the lines of a <label for> and an <input>. The problem here is that
> while the pattern is familiar, it's also new and not discoverable until the
> browsers implement the feature (or authors style it). So it's also not
> backward compatible.
>
> I think this is over-engineering a reason to use <mark>.
>
> I feel like my emails are me thinking this through aloud, and the more I
> think about it the more I think I wouldn't bother with <mark> when I
> already make pages without it that don't penalize users. It doesn't add
> enough to what I do to be useful.
>

Totally agree and maybe a good idea to take a step back and see if the
<mark> element fulfills its purpose, or that it's a potential candidate for
deprecation.


On 8 September 2013 15:40, Adrian Roselli <Roselli@algonquinstudios.com>wrote:

> > From: Reinier Kaper [mailto:rp.kaper@gmail.com]
> > Sent: Sunday, September 08, 2013 2:28 PM
> >
> > In some languages (also in English I'm pretty sure) ellipsis
> > in the text means you've skipped a part of the original text,
> > so I don't think that would be a good rendering method.
>
> Agreed.
>
> Which brings another question... How is this:
>
>      <blockquote>
>      Ask not <mark>[...]</mark> what you can do for your country.
>      </blockquote>
>
> Any better than this:
>
>      <blockquote>
>      Ask not <span>[...]</span> what you can do for your country.
>      </blockquote>
>
> There may be a good reason, but I don't know what it is.
>
> As it is, @title may be useful if used this way, but <mark> doesn't seem
> to be any better of a fit than <span>:
>
>      <blockquote>
>      Ask not <mark title="what your country can do for you,
> but">[...]</mark> what you can do for your country.
>      </blockquote>
>
>
> FWIW, I am considering the current definition of <mark> [1] and also
> balancing it with Steve's feedback that it's not being used correctly even
> in those rare cases where it is used [2].
>
>
> 1.
> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/html/master/text-level-semantics.html#the-mark-element
> 2. http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2013Sep/0070.html
>
>
>
>