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Re: Proposal: Provide better advice on constraint validation instructions

From: Leif Halvard Silli <xn--mlform-iua@xn--mlform-iua.no>
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2013 21:36:06 +0100
To: Steve Faulkner <faulkner.steve@gmail.com>
Cc: Leif Halvard Silli <xn--mlform-iua@xn--mlform-iua.no>, HTMLWG WG <public-html@w3.org>
Message-ID: <20130314213606917053.ff0ad0e2@xn--mlform-iua.no>
Steve Faulkner, Thu, 14 Mar 2013 20:21:48 +0000:
> Recommending that the text is provided as text on screen benefits a wide
> range of users that are currently locked out by the use of the title
> attribute.

Wide range of users? More than the 'keyboard only users' that you 
initially cited? That's a side issue here: The true motivation for the 
proposed change, seems a little different from what you inititally 
stated.

Leif H Silli


Steve Faulkner, Thu, 14 Mar 2013 20:21:48 +0000:
>> But, at least seen from a VoiceOver perspective, there are some
>> drawbacks to the solutions you propose. Also, I’m sure many authors
>> would like to have invisible help tags/descriptions.
> 
> there are drawbacks to all of the methods, its a matter fo finding the one
> that is simplest, most robust and works for the greatest number of people.
> 
> Recommending that the text is provided as text on screen benefits a wide
> range of users that are currently locked out by the use of the title
> attribute.
> 
> That is the thrust of the change.
> 
> The examples I suggested are simple and robust which is why i suggested
> them.
> 
> with regards
> 
> SteveF <http://www.paciellogroup.com/resources/wat-ie-about.html>
> --
> HTML 5.1 <http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/html/master/>
> <http://www.paciellogroup.com/resources/wat-ie-about.html>
> 
> 
> On 14 March 2013 20:11, Leif Halvard Silli <xn--mlform-iua@xn--mlform-iua.no
>> wrote:
> 
>> Steve Faulkner, Thu, 14 Mar 2013 18:13:31 +0000:
>>>> 
>>>> I don't understand why you keep telling me what the AX inspector says
>>>> when I have made I it so very clear that I fully trust that you give
>>>> accurate information about the AX inspector.
>>> 
>>> I was talking about what voicoever announced not what inspector displayed
>> 
>> OK. Having switched VoiceOver to English, I can verify. My very bad.
>> 
>>> * I have explained to you about repeated text - and no repeated texts.
>>> 
>>> you have drawn a conclusion about repeated text, not one that I share
>> based
>>> on experience with observing how users interact with forms.
>> 
>> More attention than conclusion, IMO.
>> 
>> To a VoiceOver user, what comes across as most 'clean'? The title
>> attribute solution currently in the text, or one or both of your
>> proposed replacement examples?
>> 
>> If L = 'Part number', H = the instruction text and E = cue to edit the
>> text field, then the VoiceOver experiences can be summarized like so:˙
>> 
>>   Current spec: LHLE
>> Your example 1: LLHEH
>> Your example 2: LLEH
>> 
>> All the above are automatically read to the user. The difference
>> between your two examples w.r.t. what is automatically read to the user
>> before the edit text cue, is interesting.
>> 
>> Regarding help tag upon request: In the current spec example, the title
>> attribute is used as help tag text. In your first example, there is no
>> specific 'help tag', as VO sees it - everything is read if the user
>> asks for help tag. In your second example, the aria-describedby text is
>> used as help tag.
>> 
>> To me, the behavior that the current spec example generates, seems more
>> straight forward. But of course, I don't have not observed users using
>> a form. Neither do I know how other ATs present the examples.
>> 
>> But, at least seen from a VoiceOver perspective, there are some
>> drawbacks to the solutions you propose. Also, I’m sure many authors
>> would like to have invisible help tags/descriptions.
>> --
>> Leif Halvard Silli
Received on Thursday, 14 March 2013 20:36:36 UTC

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