Re: Proposal: Provide better advice on constraint validation instructions

Hi leif,

see my reply to silvia:

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2013Mar/0112.html

with regards

SteveF <http://www.paciellogroup.com/resources/wat-ie-about.html>
--
HTML 5.1 <http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/html/master/>
<http://www.paciellogroup.com/resources/wat-ie-about.html>


On 14 March 2013 20:36, Leif Halvard Silli <xn--mlform-iua@xn--mlform-iua.no
> wrote:

> Steve Faulkner, Thu, 14 Mar 2013 20:21:48 +0000:
> > Recommending that the text is provided as text on screen benefits a wide
> > range of users that are currently locked out by the use of the title
> > attribute.
>
> Wide range of users? More than the 'keyboard only users' that you
> initially cited? That's a side issue here: The true motivation for the
> proposed change, seems a little different from what you inititally
> stated.
>
> Leif H Silli
>
>
> Steve Faulkner, Thu, 14 Mar 2013 20:21:48 +0000:
> >> But, at least seen from a VoiceOver perspective, there are some
> >> drawbacks to the solutions you propose. Also, I’m sure many authors
> >> would like to have invisible help tags/descriptions.
> >
> > there are drawbacks to all of the methods, its a matter fo finding the
> one
> > that is simplest, most robust and works for the greatest number of
> people.
> >
> > Recommending that the text is provided as text on screen benefits a wide
> > range of users that are currently locked out by the use of the title
> > attribute.
> >
> > That is the thrust of the change.
> >
> > The examples I suggested are simple and robust which is why i suggested
> > them.
> >
> > with regards
> >
> > SteveF <http://www.paciellogroup.com/resources/wat-ie-about.html>
> > --
> > HTML 5.1 <http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/html/master/>
> > <http://www.paciellogroup.com/resources/wat-ie-about.html>
> >
> >
> > On 14 March 2013 20:11, Leif Halvard Silli <
> xn--mlform-iua@xn--mlform-iua.no
> >> wrote:
> >
> >> Steve Faulkner, Thu, 14 Mar 2013 18:13:31 +0000:
> >>>>
> >>>> I don't understand why you keep telling me what the AX inspector says
> >>>> when I have made I it so very clear that I fully trust that you give
> >>>> accurate information about the AX inspector.
> >>>
> >>> I was talking about what voicoever announced not what inspector
> displayed
> >>
> >> OK. Having switched VoiceOver to English, I can verify. My very bad.
> >>
> >>> * I have explained to you about repeated text - and no repeated texts.
> >>>
> >>> you have drawn a conclusion about repeated text, not one that I share
> >> based
> >>> on experience with observing how users interact with forms.
> >>
> >> More attention than conclusion, IMO.
> >>
> >> To a VoiceOver user, what comes across as most 'clean'? The title
> >> attribute solution currently in the text, or one or both of your
> >> proposed replacement examples?
> >>
> >> If L = 'Part number', H = the instruction text and E = cue to edit the
> >> text field, then the VoiceOver experiences can be summarized like so:˙
> >>
> >>   Current spec: LHLE
> >> Your example 1: LLHEH
> >> Your example 2: LLEH
> >>
> >> All the above are automatically read to the user. The difference
> >> between your two examples w.r.t. what is automatically read to the user
> >> before the edit text cue, is interesting.
> >>
> >> Regarding help tag upon request: In the current spec example, the title
> >> attribute is used as help tag text. In your first example, there is no
> >> specific 'help tag', as VO sees it - everything is read if the user
> >> asks for help tag. In your second example, the aria-describedby text is
> >> used as help tag.
> >>
> >> To me, the behavior that the current spec example generates, seems more
> >> straight forward. But of course, I don't have not observed users using
> >> a form. Neither do I know how other ATs present the examples.
> >>
> >> But, at least seen from a VoiceOver perspective, there are some
> >> drawbacks to the solutions you propose. Also, I’m sure many authors
> >> would like to have invisible help tags/descriptions.
> >> --
> >> Leif Halvard Silli
>