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Re: a few suggestions on marking up comments [WAS Is the current definition of the article element in HTML useful?]

From: Ian Devlin <ian@iandevlin.com>
Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2013 14:06:06 +0100
Message-ID: <CAOYOhSvnZyKgALcn55vvuhioWzFiCkO8CekdqshdVH6hw48KKA@mail.gmail.com>
To: Steve Faulkner <faulkner.steve@gmail.com>
Cc: Silvia Pfeiffer <silviapfeiffer1@gmail.com>, HTMLWG WG <public-html@w3.org>
I've been thinking a bit about this and am coming around to preferring the
idea of using a list, although it's more likely to be <ol> rather than <ul>
since comments are usually listed in order of when they were posted.

There's also the issue of nested lists, if the comment thread takes more of
a conversation thread layout, e.g.

<ol>
   <li>Comment 1</li>
   <li>Comment 2</li>
   <li>Comment 3
      <ol>
         <li>Comment 3 Reply 1</li>
         <li>Comment 3 Reply 2</li>
      </ol>
   </li>
   <li>Comment 4</li>
</ol>

Another thought that has occurred to me is related to the <nav> element.
Someone suggested (I can't recall where) that since <nav> often (but not
exlusively) contains a list of links, that the spec changes to allow <li>
elements to be direct children of <nav>. So if there was ever the
introduction of a <comment>, <discussion> or <thread> element (for example)
then the same might apply.

Just some thoughts on the matter. Do with them what you will!

Regards,

Ian


On 25 January 2013 13:33, Steve Faulkner <faulkner.steve@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Silvia,
>
> I am not overly keen on the ul > article idea myself, its an experiment, a
> discussion point, but what it does is illustrate the useful information
> conveyed by a list structure that is missing from the current
> recommendation.
>
>
> regards
> Steve
>
>
> On 25 January 2013 12:15, Silvia Pfeiffer <silviapfeiffer1@gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> My gut feeling says that the second one opens the door to a lot of bad
>> markup. People will start thinking that other elements can follow this list
>> pattern, too. I don't think it should be allowed. I'd prefer the explicit
>> use of list elements, possibly with <article> inside.
>> Silvia.
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Jan 25, 2013 at 10:37 PM, Steve Faulkner <
>> faulkner.steve@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I have sketched out a few possibilities:
>>> 1 conservative, 1 less so.
>>>
>>> http://www.html5accessibility.com/tests/comments.html
>>>
>>>
>>> regards
>>> SteveF
>>>
>>>
>>> On 23 January 2013 10:41, Steve Faulkner <faulkner.steve@gmail.com>wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi all,
>>>>
>>>> I think the definition of the article element in HTML [1] is overly
>>>> vague and broad, which leads to intended and unintended use that
>>>> undermines its usefulness as a semantic construct for users that
>>>> actually consume its semantics such as screen reader users.
>>>>
>>>> For example, the spec promotes the use of article as a container of,
>>>> well, an article and also for each instance of a comment on an article
>>>> (example: [2]).
>>>> Yet there is no defined method of exposing the semantic differences
>>>> between an article in the common understanding of the term and when
>>>> used as defined in the broader HTML definition.
>>>>
>>>> I suggest that the authoring advice and requirments in regards to the
>>>> article element need to be reviewed and perhaps modified in light of
>>>> usage data [4], how the semantics are exposed and conveyed in user
>>>> agents, issues articulated in articles and blog posts (example: [3])
>>>> on how to use it and feedback from users and developers.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> [1]
>>>> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/html/master/sections.html#the-article-element
>>>> [2]
>>>> http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/dec/07/tories-laughing-again-deborah-orr
>>>> [3] http://html5doctor.com/designing-a-blog-with-html5/
>>>> [4] http://www.html5accessibility.com/HTML5data/article/
>>>> --
>>>> with regards
>>>>
>>>> Steve Faulkner
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> with regards
>>>
>>> Steve Faulkner
>>> Technical Director - TPG
>>>
>>> www.paciellogroup.com | www.HTML5accessibility.com |
>>> www.twitter.com/stevefaulkner
>>> HTML5: Techniques for providing useful text alternatives -
>>> dev.w3.org/html5/alt-techniques/
>>> Web Accessibility Toolbar - www.paciellogroup.com/resources/wat-ie-about.html
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> with regards
>
> Steve Faulkner
> Technical Director - TPG
>
> www.paciellogroup.com | www.HTML5accessibility.com |
> www.twitter.com/stevefaulkner
> HTML5: Techniques for providing useful text alternatives -
> dev.w3.org/html5/alt-techniques/
> Web Accessibility Toolbar - www.paciellogroup.com/resources/wat-ie-about.html
>
>



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ian devlin
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Received on Friday, 25 January 2013 13:06:34 GMT

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