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{minutes} HTML WG telecon 2012-07-11 - actions, issues, task force reports

From: Glenn Adams <glenn@skynav.com>
Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2012 11:09:35 -0600
Message-ID: <CACQ=j+fuUeePzkiGdke2pdhZx+P=5_Q6ykaoOGH5QUy4_Pztng@mail.gmail.com>
To: public-html-wg-announce@w3.org
Cc: HTML WG LIST <public-html@w3.org>
Draft minutes available at http://www.w3.org/2012/07/12-html-wg-minutes.html,
a text version follows:


                               - DRAFT -

                       HTML Weekly Teleconference

12 Jul 2012

   [2]Agenda

      [2] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-wg-announce/2012JulSep/0004.html

   See also: [3]IRC log

      [3] http://www.w3.org/2012/07/12-html-wg-irc

Attendees

   Present
          glenn, yang, Sam, Janina, eliot, [Microsoft], paulc,
          Radhika_Roy, ddorwin, Laura_Carlson, mjs, krisk, hober,
          adrianba, frankolivier, +1.818.370.aaaa, MIke,
          +1.415.832.aabb

   Regrets
   Chair
          mjs

   Scribe
          glenn

Contents

     * [4]Topics
         1. [5]ACTION items due by Thursday, July 12
         2. [6]New Issues This Week
         3. [7]Items closed Last Week
         4. [8]Issues Closing This Week
         5. [9]Items Closing Next Week
         6. [10]New Calls This Week
         7. [11]New Surveys This Week
         8. [12]Decisions This Week
         9. [13]Task Force Reports
        10. [14]Other Business
        11. [15]AOB?
        12. [16]Scribe for Next Meeting
        13. [17]Adjournment
     * [18]Summary of Action Items
     __________________________________________________________

   <trackbot> Date: 12 July 2012

   mjs: i already started trackbot

   <scribe> ScribeNick: glenn

ACTION items due by Thursday, July 12

   ACTION-217?

   <trackbot> ACTION-217 -- Richard Schwerdtfeger to create a
   joint Path location add hit testing binding CP for ISSUE-201
   that binds canvas to fallback content (Rich, Ted, Frank) -- due
   2012-06-21 -- OPEN

   <trackbot> [19]http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/217

     [19] http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/217

   mjs: one item ACTION-217
   ... Ted and Frank are working this, SF has commented proposing
   his own

   <paulc> Steve's proposal is at
   [20]http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposals/hitregions

     [20] http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposals/hitregions

   <paulc> This is a revision to Ted's proposal

   hober: some outstanding feedback from SF and Rich which might
   result in some changes
   ... but thinks it is stable

   paulc: SF submitted comments/changes to Ted's proposal
   ... operative question is that others need to review SF's
   counter proposal

   mjs: may need to go to survey, but two proposals are much
   closer now

   <paulc> Status of ISSUE-201:
   [21]http://dev.w3.org/html5/status/issue-status.html#ISSUE-201

     [21] http://dev.w3.org/html5/status/issue-status.html#ISSUE-201

   close ACTION-217

   <trackbot> ACTION-217 Create a joint Path location add hit
   testing binding CP for ISSUE-201 that binds canvas to fallback
   content (Rich, Ted, Frank) closed

   paulc: should there be new action on Ted to review?

   mjs: thinks ML thread is sufficient

   janina: heard from rich will post soon

   <paulc> Active discussion at:
   [22]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2012Jul/006
   4.html

     [22] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2012Jul/0064.html

   janina: nobody is disagreeing, sounds more like clarification
   discussion

   mjs: still should be able to reach consensus
   ... continue discussion on ML

New Issues This Week

   none

   mjs: one tracker request
   ... to be LC2 comment

Items closed Last Week

   ISSUE-189?

   <trackbot> ISSUE-189 -- Prefix convention needs to be
   coordinated with IETF -- open

   <trackbot> [23]http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/189

     [23] http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/189

   ISSUE-200?

   <trackbot> ISSUE-200 -- Allow wrapping LEGEND (or new iLEGEND)
   in non-FIELDSET elements -- open

   <trackbot> [24]http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/200

     [24] http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/200

   mjs: both calls have closed

Issues Closing This Week

   none

Items Closing Next Week

   ISSUE-199?

   <trackbot> ISSUE-199 -- Define complete processing requirements
   for ARIA attributes -- open

   <trackbot> [25]http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/199

     [25] http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/199

   mjs: CfC active, revisions to CPs, consensus proposal present

New Calls This Week

   ISSUE-199?

   <trackbot> ISSUE-199 -- Define complete processing requirements
   for ARIA attributes -- open

   <trackbot> [26]http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/199

     [26] http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/199

New Surveys This Week

   ISSUE-200?

   <trackbot> ISSUE-200 -- Allow wrapping LEGEND (or new iLEGEND)
   in non-FIELDSET elements -- open

   <trackbot> [27]http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/200

     [27] http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/200

   ISSUE-189?

   <trackbot> ISSUE-189 -- Prefix convention needs to be
   coordinated with IETF -- open

   <trackbot> [28]http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/189

     [28] http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/189

   mjs: Julian raised issue that IETF desires further discussion,
   will check with Philippe
   ... may put survey on hold, but should still provide input

   paulc: plh says go ahead with survey
   ... will respond on ML on this thread

Decisions This Week

   none

Task Force Reports

   [$1\47] Testing Task Force

   kris: good morning, didn't meet last week will meet next week

   <krisk>
   [29]http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/Testing#Upcoming_meetings

     [29] http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/Testing#Upcoming_meetings

   kris: schedule has been extended and posted on wiki
   ... had discussed spec change about pattern repeat, opened bug
   sent to list

   <krisk>
   [30]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2012Jul/006
   5.html

     [30] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2012Jul/0065.html

   kris: will have to see what consensus develops
   ... q/c?

   yang: what day is testing call?

   <krisk> Please see [31]http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/Testing

     [31] http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/Testing

   kris: see above link

   yang: ok

   <paulc>
   [32]http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/Testing#Conference_Calls

     [32] http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/Testing#Conference_Calls

   [$1\47] Accessibility Task Force

   janina: not a lot to report
   ... people have continued working on their tasks
   ... lack of quorum in last call
   ... progress, but slower than usual
   ... chairs are aware of status changes on ISSUE-194, etc
   ... and on ISSUE-201, nothing to add on what's been said
   ... strongly opposed to moving ISSUE-203 forward before
   resolving ISSUE-30

   [that is the TF is opposed]

   mjs: yang is on queue

   yang: noticed on ML that may decide on 3 options on ISSUE-194

   <paulc>
   [33]http://dev.w3.org/html5/status/issue-status.html#ISSUE-194

     [33] http://dev.w3.org/html5/status/issue-status.html#ISSUE-194

   yang: will we discuss on this call?

   janina: can do if folks like

   paulc: chairs are preparing a survey on three options

   yang: a new survey?

   paulc: [explains process]

   yang: another question
   ... for ??? detection ???

   [scribe: did not follow question]

   paulc: question is about hit testing and whether it is related
   to accessibility

   <paulc>
   [34]http://dev.w3.org/html5/status/issue-status.html#ISSUE-201

     [34] http://dev.w3.org/html5/status/issue-status.html#ISSUE-201

   paulc: see ISSUE-201
   ... [explains process about task forces]
   ... answer is yes, it is an accessibility related issue
   ... as are many other issues on status page posted above

Other Business

   ISSUE-189?

   <trackbot> ISSUE-189 -- Prefix convention needs to be
   coordinated with IETF -- open

   <trackbot> [35]http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/189

     [35] http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/189

   mjs: CP was revised as requested by chairs, now have gone to
   survey
   ... some questions about IETF coordination, but will proceed

   ISSUE-201?

   <trackbot> ISSUE-201 -- Provide canvas location and hit testing
   capability to fallback content -- open

   <trackbot> [36]http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/201

     [36] http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/201

   mjs: two proposals now with slightly different variants
   ... from hober and SF
   ... q/c?

   ISSUE-204?

   <trackbot> ISSUE-204 -- Exempt ARIA attributes from the rule
   that prohibits reference to hidden elements -- open

   <trackbot> [37]http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/204

     [37] http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/204

   mjs: seems to have material differences in CPs

   hober: JF and I went back and forth on this
   ... have gotten closer, hope to find compromise wording
   ... a little more work to get agreement with JF

   janina: would be happiest if we can reach consensus on language
   ... not sure how to move in that direction, would be good if
   hober can move this
   ... great concern is there are large # of disabled users not
   using screen readers
   ... problems with tab approach
   ... probably not meeting all use cases

   <laura> "Every good-faith effort has been made here, and if at
   this time you and Jonas are still unprepared to endorse the V4
   CP, then I will ask the Accessibility Task Force for their
   endorsement of the V4 CP and ask that the Chairs proceed with a
   WBS survey on Issue 204." - John Foliot, June 29.

   <laura>
   [38]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2012Jun/017
   6.html

     [38] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2012Jun/0176.html

   mjs: yang on queue

   yang: why does ARIA need to see hidden element?
   ... worried about breaking service logic

   <yang> why let ARIA see the hidden, it will ruin the JS dynamic
   service logic

   hober: thinks what yang is asking is whether elements that are
   hidden, with visibility toggled from script
   ... shouldn't pose a problem for ARIA attributes
   ... should be OK

   yang: if disabled users use ARIA, then they can see hidden
   elements?
   ... does ARIA differentiate between hidden and not hidden?

   <yang> can user see the difference by aria for hidden and
   not-hidden?

   mjs: suggests taking this discussion offline
   ... or discuss on ML

   <paulc> Yang could also attend the A11Y TF meeting

   yang: ok

   Using ARIA in HTML

   [39]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2012Jun/016
   5.html

     [39] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2012Jun/0165.html

   <yang> any A11Y TF conference call information?

   mjs: any q/c about this document (Using ARIA in HTML)?

   glenn: what is intended purpose of this doc? for info only?

   paulc: intent is to fill in gaps, more readable
   ... less jargon

   <paulc> From 0165.html: "My intention is to provide a non
   normative resource that fills in the gaps in the current HTML5
   specification and a document that is more readable (i.e. less
   jargonist)"

   glenn: thanks, yes

   paulc: points out that it does deviate from HTML5

   glenn: do we need further action by WG?

   paulc: at present, author is requesting feedback
   ... no specific actions for WG at this time
   ... there is a bugzilla component for this...

   <paulc> Bugzilla component and link:
   [40]https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/enter_bug.cgi?product=HTML%2
   0WG&component=Using%20ARIA%20in%20HTML

     [40] https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/enter_bug.cgi?product=HTML%20WG&component=Using%20ARIA%20in%20HTML

   glenn: asks janina if A11Y TF has any position on this document

   janina: not at this time, has not discussed
   ... there is a group in TF working on mapping
   ... so unclear
   ... TF needs to discuss

AOB?

   paulc: wants to report that group of members dealing with work
   on media proposal
   ... continue to meet on weekly basis
   ... significant advances on both EME and MSE proposals

   <paulc> EME minutes:
   [41]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-media/2012J
   ul/0034.html

     [41] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-media/2012Jul/0034.html

   paulc: substantial changes to both interfaces to be more O-O
   ... any one interested in that work should contact paulc
   ... also see public-html-media archive

Scribe for Next Meeting

   mjs: any volunteers

   <paulc> Paul will be chairing

   Ted volunteers. Paul C will chair.

Adjournment

   mjs: adjourned
   ... see you next week

   trackbot, end meeting

Summary of Action Items

   [End of minutes]
Received on Thursday, 12 July 2012 17:10:29 GMT

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