W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > public-html@w3.org > March 2011

Re: ISSUE-155 counter proposal

From: Leif Halvard Silli <xn--mlform-iua@xn--mlform-iua.no>
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 15:03:46 +0100
To: "Tab Atkins Jr." <jackalmage@gmail.com>
Cc: Leif Halvard Silli <xn--mlform-iua@xn--mlform-iua.no>, Ian Hickson <ian@hixie.ch>, public-html@w3.org
Message-ID: <20110323150346477797.70b61d27@xn--mlform-iua.no>
Tab Atkins Jr., Wed, 23 Mar 2011 06:25:13 -0700:
> On Wed, Mar 23, 2011 at 3:13 AM, Leif Halvard Silli
> <xn--mlform-iua@xn--mlform-iua.no> wrote:
>> Ian Hickson, Wed, 23 Mar 2011 04:06:47 +0000 (UTC):
>>  [...]
>> 
>>> RATIONALE
>>  [...]
>>> Non-CSS UAs [ snip ] can already draw table
>>> borders on tables, so adding a presentational attribute for this purpose
>>> adds nothing for them. [...]
>> 
>> What use is there in having non-CSS UAs that are able to draw borders,
>> if authors aren't allowed to use the very HTML feature that triggers
>> them to actually draw them?
>> 
>> Non-CSS UAS do not draw a single border unless one sets the border
>> attribute to a non-zero value. The default styling of tables, is to not
>> display the border.
> 
> The point is that non-CSS UAs can (and, apparently, *should*)

Were is the "apparently" coming from?

> do this
> as part of their default stylesheet.  The "default styling of tables"
> is a UA-specific setting.  HTML recommends a certain UA stylesheet but
> does not require it, and non-CSS UAs can't implement it in the first
> place (as they don't use UA stylesheets).

Could you clarify?

EITHER: Do you claim that all user agents, whether they support CSS or 
not, _should_ default to display the borders? (This would mean that 
non-CSS UAs would *always* display borders.)

OR: Do you claim that non-CSS UAs (but no CSS UAs) should default to 
display the borders? (This would, as well, mean that non-CSS UAs would  
*always* display borders.)

OR: Something else?

ALSO: Can you point to a place in HTML5 which claims the same thing 
that you claim?

NOTE: I have a vague feeling that you and Ian are of the opinion that 
if a user agent support the border attribute, then it support CSS, only 
not with the correct syntax. Am I on to something?
-- 
leif halvard sili
Received on Wednesday, 23 March 2011 14:04:22 GMT

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