W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > public-html@w3.org > March 2011

Re: ISSUE-155 counter proposal

From: Leif Halvard Silli <xn--mlform-iua@xn--mlform-iua.no>
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 15:24:49 +0100
To: "Tab Atkins Jr." <jackalmage@gmail.com>
Cc: Ian Hickson <ian@hixie.ch>, public-html@w3.org
Message-ID: <20110323152449579738.d763206c@xn--mlform-iua.no>
Btw, I checked the spec myself. And it turns out that it actually 
treats the bare presence of the @border attribute - regardless of its 
value - as a presentational hint that the there should be a 1 pixel 
wide border: [1] 

]]
table[border] > tr > td, table[border] > tr > th,
table[border] > thead > tr > td, table[border] > thead > tr > th,
table[border] > tbody > tr > td, table[border] > tbody > tr > th,
table[border] > tfoot > tr > td, table[border] > tfoot > tr > th {
  border-width: 1px;
}
[[

Which means that there is no expectation that there is a border when 
there is *not* a border.

Since my CP says that only border="1" (<table border="1">) should be 
valid, then I struggle to see why it is not possible with an amicable 
solution here ...

[1] 
http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec/rendering.html#punctuation-and-decorations


Leif Halvard Silli

Leif Halvard Silli, Wed, 23 Mar 2011 15:03:46 +0100:
> Tab Atkins Jr., Wed, 23 Mar 2011 06:25:13 -0700:
>> On Wed, Mar 23, 2011 at 3:13 AM, Leif Halvard Silli wrote:
>>> Ian Hickson, Wed, 23 Mar 2011 04:06:47 +0000 (UTC):
>>>  [...]
>>> 
>>>> RATIONALE
>>>  [...]
>>>> Non-CSS UAs [ snip ] can already draw table
>>>> borders on tables, so adding a presentational attribute for this purpose
>>>> adds nothing for them. [...]
>>> 
>>> What use is there in having non-CSS UAs that are able to draw borders,
>>> if authors aren't allowed to use the very HTML feature that triggers
>>> them to actually draw them?
>>> 
>>> Non-CSS UAS do not draw a single border unless one sets the border
>>> attribute to a non-zero value. The default styling of tables, is to not
>>> display the border.
>> 
>> The point is that non-CSS UAs can (and, apparently, *should*)
> 
> Were is the "apparently" coming from?
> 
>> do this
>> as part of their default stylesheet.  The "default styling of tables"
>> is a UA-specific setting.  HTML recommends a certain UA stylesheet but
>> does not require it, and non-CSS UAs can't implement it in the first
>> place (as they don't use UA stylesheets).
> 
> Could you clarify?
> 
> EITHER: Do you claim that all user agents, whether they support CSS or 
> not, _should_ default to display the borders? (This would mean that 
> non-CSS UAs would *always* display borders.)
> 
> OR: Do you claim that non-CSS UAs (but no CSS UAs) should default to 
> display the borders? (This would, as well, mean that non-CSS UAs would  
> *always* display borders.)
> 
> OR: Something else?
> 
> ALSO: Can you point to a place in HTML5 which claims the same thing 
> that you claim?
> 
> NOTE: I have a vague feeling that you and Ian are of the opinion that 
> if a user agent support the border attribute, then it support CSS, only 
> not with the correct syntax. Am I on to something?
> -- 
> leif halvard sili
Received on Wednesday, 23 March 2011 14:25:23 GMT

This archive was generated by hypermail 2.2.0+W3C-0.50 : Wednesday, 9 May 2012 00:17:26 GMT