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Re: hgroup: a possible alternative

From: Tab Atkins Jr. <jackalmage@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2011 17:59:13 -0800
Message-ID: <AANLkTinH2WCn3dX-x0XuOOUeU8Wd9_K5q_QN706LUXMT@mail.gmail.com>
To: Leif Halvard Silli <xn--mlform-iua@xn--mlform-iua.no>
Cc: James Graham <jgraham@opera.com>, Toby Inkster <tai@g5n.co.uk>, HTML WG LIST <public-html@w3.org>
On Mon, Jan 10, 2011 at 5:32 PM, Leif Halvard Silli
<xn--mlform-iua@xn--mlform-iua.no> wrote:
> James Graham, Mon, 10 Jan 2011 23:46:52 +0100 (CET):
>> On Mon, 10 Jan 2011, Toby Inkster wrote:
>  ...
>> Why not <h1>Main Heading <subhead>Subheading</subhead></h1>
>  ....
>> <subhead> also has the benefit of simplifying the outline
>> algorithm somewhat compared to <hgroup>.
>
> Why not. Because the outline algorithm - as well as the authoring -
> would become simplified if instead of marking up the text *not* to go
> into the outline, one could mark up the text to *go* into the outline.
> It might also be that one do not want to make into a subtitle
> everything that is not to go into the outline. Also, the <subhead> idea
> has the disadvantage that one could split upt the heading - and could
> end up very funny in the outline:
>
>        <h1> The <subhead> happy, </subhead>
>                 sad <subhead> book </subhead> lover </h1>

What's wrong with that?  If the author wants to be confusing and
weird, they can be confusing and weird.  I don't see any particular
reason to disallow that, when it's so obviously a really confusing and
weird thing to do.


> Kornel has suggested, structurally, the following:
>
>        <h1><outline>Main heading</outlin> Subtitle</h1>
>
> which I think is more flexible than <subhead>. Given that it it would
> be forbidden (I presume) with more than one <outline> element per
> heading element, it would also be simple to select in CSS, even with
> "dumb" selectros like h1 outline{}.

This has weird effects.  Styling a normal heading requires just an
"hn" selector, while with this you have to use "hn" to first style the
subheading how you want, and then reverse anything you want different
on the heading with a separate "hn > outline" rule.

Using <subhead> gives a more reasonable behavior, where you always
style the heading with "hn", and then use an "hn > subhead" selector
just to change the bits you want about the subheading.

~TJ
Received on Tuesday, 11 January 2011 02:00:06 GMT

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