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Re: <dialog>

From: Gregory J. Rosmaita <oedipus@hicom.net>
Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 07:12:39 +0000
To: Ian Hickson <ian@hixie.ch>
Cc: public-html@w3.org, wai-xtech@w3.org
Message-Id: <20090128070540.M78835@hicom.net>

restoring wai-xtech to the carbon-copy list

aloha, ian!

you stated, quote:
> <q> isn't used much either. I really don't think it is realistic 
> to expect <dialog> (or <d>) to be used enough to justify having 
> such a short name.
> 
> Based on my experience doing studies of Web content, I would 
> estimate that if you took a random sample of 1000 pages on the 
> Web, at most one would have some text that would be appropriate 
> for <dialog>.
unquote

what was the methodology used?  did you also search for strings 
encased in @quot; or &#34; or plain "naked" quotes?  what about
CSS-generated quotes?  D and Q aren't used because (a) one does 
not yet exist and (b) most places where Q would be appropriate, 
character entity values or simple "naked" quotes are utilized...

aren't we trying to improve the web -- doesn't that mean improving
the user and authoring experience by using D and Q to signify 
dialogue and a quote, respectively, so that they CAN be utilized 
by page authors...  use of Q and D as semantic markers is not only 
critical, but the only semantically sensible thing to do, and lachy's
web developer's guide to HTML5 should stress to authors that they 
utilize such elements, rather than indicatiing dialogue or 
quotations with character entity values, unicode values or "naked"
quotes...

gregory.
----------------------------------------------------------------
CONSERVATIVE, n.  A statesman who is enamored of existing evils,
as distinguished from the Liberal, who wishes to replace them 
with others.         -- Ambrose Bierce, _The Devil's Dictionary_
----------------------------------------------------------------
             Gregory J. Rosmaita, oedipus@hicom.net
  Camera Obscura: http://www.hicom.net/~oedipus/index.html
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---------- Original Message -----------
From: Ian Hickson <ian@hixie.ch>
To: "Gregory J. Rosmaita" <oedipus@hicom.net>
Cc: public-html@w3.org
Sent: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 06:58:57 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Re: <dialog>

> (trimming cc list)
> 
> On Wed, 28 Jan 2009, Gregory J. Rosmaita wrote:
> > 
> > i proposed a single letter element -- D -- for "dialogue" precisely 
> > because it will be used so often -- for example, in marking up a 
> > fictional story, one would not use Q or QUOTE to mark dialogue, 
because 
> > one is not quoting the characters, rather, the dialogue indicates 
that 
> > the author is speaking in that character's voice...
> 
> <q> isn't used much either. I really don't think it is realistic 
> to expect <dialog> (or <d>) to be used enough to justify having 
> such a short name.
> 
> Based on my experience doing studies of Web content, I would 
> estimate that if you took a random sample of 1000 pages on the 
> Web, at most one would have some text that would be appropriate 
> for <dialog>.
> 
> (We're adding <dialog> to prevent abuse of <dl> and to allow 
> <dl> to get stricter semantics, not because it has a high-
> profile use case.)
> 
> -- 
> Ian Hickson               U+1047E                )\._.,--....,
> '``.    fL http://ln.hixie.ch/       U+263A                /,  
>  _.. \   _\  ;`._ ,. Things that are impossible just take 
> longer.   `._.-(,_..'--(,_..'`-.;.'
------- End of Original Message -------
Received on Wednesday, 28 January 2009 07:13:20 GMT

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