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Re: [whatwg] several messages about the HTML syntax

From: Maurice <maurice@thymeonline.com>
Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 12:37:19 -0400
Cc: Křištof Želechovski <giecrilj@stegny.2a.pl>, Leif Halvard Silli <lhs@malform.no>
Message-Id: <B49205FE-E148-4B87-BC55-E378B2809966@thymeonline.com>
To: public-html@w3.org
Screenshot of the kind of helpful tooltips available in Z-Brush.

If browsers displayed @longdesc like this by default then more authors  
would use it.

http://thinsoldier.com/wip/zcap.jpg






On Apr 28, 2008, at 3:46 AM, Leif Halvard Silli wrote:

> Maurice 2008-04-28 04.10:
>> I think longdesc should be expanded to all attributes.
>
> Did you mean to say that @longdesc should be expanded to all  
> elements? Or to all <a href> elements? (In the code examples you  
> only added it to the <a href> element.)
>
>> It will be used as a native (no javascript needed) way of making  
>> more useful tooltips.
>> It's value can either be a full url or the id of an element on the  
>> current page or the id of an element on another page (but this  
>> would require loading a whole other file in the background just to  
>> get a small portion of it). [...]
>> <a href="delete.php?id=443" title="Delete this record and all  
>> associated media" longdesc="#tooltip_delete">Delete</a> [...]
>
> What you have identified here, is a situation where also sighted  
> users could benefit from a long description before taking action to  
> activate a link.  And by having @longdesc on a <a href> the usecase  
> als becomes identical to the usecase HTML 4 gives for requiring that  
> the @longdesc URL and the <a href> URL must be accessible in two  
> different ways. (So that the user can choose to read the long  
> description before following the link.)
>
> Having @longdesc on the <a> element should increase the use of  
> @longdesc greatly, and this would be beneficial in itself. Because,  
> the problem with @longdesc today, is that too few, including users,  
> know that it exist and how to use it. The problem of how to solve  
> the hiding of the long description - in the file itself or in an  
> external file - is also the same. Solving that problem will also  
> benefit both the <img> usecase and the <a> usecase.
>
> I have been fiddeling with extending the use of @longdesc as well,  
> in connection with cross-referencing. Before the auto cross- 
> reference feature was deleted, I began an article, where I argue for  
> including @longdesc in elements of the cross-reference feature, so  
> that one could point to <dfn> elements on other pages.
>
> * http://www.malform.no/cross-referencing-to-long-descriptions
>
> I also made an example of how a long description can be kept in the  
> same page, while at the same time being hidden for those who don't  
> care/need it, yet still be available via doubleclick - for any  
> JavScript supporting browser:
>
> * http://www.malform.no/acidlongdesctest
>
> Regarding cross-refs again, taking your idea further, I could  
> imagine <a longdesc> without href, instead of adding the @longdesc  
> directly to the (former) auto cross-reference elements. The default  
> style for <a> with @longdesc but without @href could be different  
> from <a href> etc. That way one could easily use @longesc for cross- 
> references without getting default blue links etc (as Nicholas  
> Shanks mentioned [1]), in addition to the benefit of being able to  
> show the context defining a term as a "tooltip".
>
> [1] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2008Apr/0725.html
> -- 
> leif halvard silli



zcap.jpg
(image/jpeg attachment: zcap.jpg)

Received on Monday, 28 April 2008 16:38:36 UTC

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