W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > public-html@w3.org > June 2007

Re: the market hasn't spoken - it hasn't bothered to listened [was Re: fear of "invisible metadata"]

From: Sander Tekelenburg <st@isoc.nl>
Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 14:33:26 +0200
Message-Id: <p0624067bc2a6b43207d4@[]>
To: <public-html@w3.org>

At 00:00 -0700 UTC, on 2007-06-26, Maciej Stachowiak wrote:

> On Jun 25, 2007, at 10:08 PM, Robert Burns wrote:


> I would be ok with an image element that supports true fallback, but
> I don't think a linked separate document is quite the same thing as
> fallback content.

Indeed. <pic>fallback</pic> and <a rel="longdesc"> are just as different as
alt and longdesc are.


> <style>
> .fallback { display:none; }
> </style>
> <picture src="foo.jpg">
> <img src="foo.jpg" alt=""> <!-- empty alt text since this is for
> fallback in UAs that don't have <picture> support -->
> <div class="fallback">
> ... fallback content here ...
> </div>
> </picture>
> I'm not sure if it is worth it going to such lengths for an img
> element with markup fallback.

Not to mention that this would make pages (author-)CSS-dependant. When the UA
ignores the author CSS, the user will be presented with the fallback content
even when the image is presented already.

>> The only other issue that I think would need to be addressed is
>> that of the @alt attribute. Clearly the @alt attribute has the same
>> advantages for other embedded content elements that it has for
>> <img>. We should consider adding @alt to all non-text elements: not
>> as fallback content, but as the quick and short alternate text for
>> non-text media.
> The text alternative for such elements is their actual content. This
> is better than an alt attribute because it allows general markup. I'm
> not sure why alt is desired in such cases.

Me neither.

>> We may also want to think more about the differences and
>> similarities between @alt and @title and provide implementors and
>> authors with clearer guidance on how these might be handled and
>> used together.
> alt is an alternative, a title is auxiliary. Seems pretty clear to me.

IE renders the contenty of alt even when the image is loaded. So apparently
it isn't clear to all UA developers.

Sander Tekelenburg
The Web Repair Initiative: <http://webrepair.org/>
Received on Tuesday, 26 June 2007 12:39:03 UTC

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