W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > public-html-ig-ko@w3.org > January 2011

RE: Korean-specific CSS issues to be discussed

From: 이원석 <wslee@etri.re.kr>
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2011 18:38:31 +0900
Message-ID: <B4EAD1122C31304099A5CDEA5447210F023A2927@email2>
To: "Min Tae Kim" <ibare77@gmail.com>
Cc: "HTML Korean Interest Group" <public-html-ig-ko@w3.org>
안녕하세요~ HTML5 KIG UI 그룹장님.

아래 메일과 관련해서 차기 HTML5 KIG 회의때 이슈들을 정리해서 논의를 했으면 합니다.
바쁘시겠지만 준비 부탁드립니다~

그리고 이 이슈와 관련하여 관심이 있으신 분들은 그룹장님과 함께 준비를 부탁드립니다~
제가 css3-text와 css3-lists 표준 모두 Working Draft 상태이기 때문에 저희 의견을 반영할 수 있는 상황입니다~
대한민국의 상황을 대표해서 KIG에서 의견을 정리해서 제출해 봅시다~^^ 적극적인 참여를 부탁드립니다~ ;)

제네바에서 이원석 드림.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: public-html-ig-ko-request@w3.org [mailto:public-html-ig-ko-
> request@w3.org] On Behalf Of Kang-Hao (Kenny) Lu
> Sent: Wednesday, January 19, 2011 11:58 PM
> To: HTML Korean Interest Group
> Cc: ML public-i18n-core; fantasai
> Subject: Korean-specific CSS issues to be discussed
> 
> 
> Hello Korean friends,
> 
> My name is Kang-Hao (Kenny) Lu and I am a Chinese speaker working for
> W3C on, partially, internationalization on Web. It's very proud to see
> you having fruitful discussion about cutting edge HTML5 features and
> news (like the one about h.264 :) ). As CSS is essential to the Web but
> it is still far from complete in terms of its multilingual support, I
> would like to invite you to review CSS specs that have Korean-specific
> features. Notably,
> 
> * CSS 3 Text[1] - a CSS module for multilingual text support, currently
> under heavy revision.
> * CSS 3 List[2] - a CSS module for lists. It has not been updated for
> many years but CSS WG just appointed a new editor to work on it
> [1] http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css3-text/

> [2] http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css3-lists/

> 
> To review the specs, basically you can just do a text search on the
> keywords "Korean", "Hangul" to find the relevant parts. Please don't be
> surprised when you find unexpected description of Korean (I was
> surprised the first time I read the parts about Chinese :) ) because the
> editors wouldn't be able to know every detail about every language, and
> that's why we need your help. There are actually several specific
> questions in these specs, but of course your discussions are not limited
> to these:
> 
> 1.
> For vertical writing in Korean, on which side do you put an underline
> on. The current draft says it should be put on the right (see
> 'text-underline-postion: auto' [3]), but my experiment[4][5][6] with IE
> shows something different. Which is correct? A real world picture, even
> from an old book, might tell a lot.
> 
> [3] http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css3-text/#text-underline-position

> [4] http://www.w3.org/People/kennyluck/Test/underline-pos

> [5] http://www.w3.org/People/kennyluck/Test/underline-pos.ie7

> (the forces the page to be displayed in IE7 legacy mode and you can see
> the underline for Japanese is on the right but it's on the left for Korean)
> [6] http://www.w3.org/People/kennyluck/Test/underline-pos.ie8

> 
> 2.
> For CSS 3 List, several changes have been suggested by a researcher from
> Microsoft[7]. You are encouraged to review the document as a whole. But
> the editor has a particular concern about 'hangul-legal'. Here's our
> conversation
> 
> [[
> Tabatkins: kennyluck: Thanks a lot for the pointer back to that document
> about cjk fixes!  I had forgetten about it.  Question for you guys when
> you review - is it intentional that hangul-legal doesn't have it's own
> version of the second digit marker?  Right now only the second digit
> marker, and the digits themselves, are falling back to cjk-ideographic.
> That feels like a possible error.
> kennyluck: TabAtkins: I am not a Korean, but I my guess is that
> Hangul-legal uses a tweak version of the cjk-ideographic algorithm.
> kennyluck: 3. For each group, ignoring digits that have the value zero,
> append the second
> kennyluck: digit marker to the second digit, the third digit marker to
> the third digit, and
> kennyluck: the fourth digit marker to the fourth digit. These markers
> are defined in the
> kennyluck: tables for the specific numbering systems. The first digit
> has no marker.
> kennyluck: Perhaps "append the second digit marker to the second digit"
> does not apply to Hangul-legal, since it does not have it's version of
> the second digit marker.
> kennyluck: so for example, if 40032 is to converted to Hangul-legal.
> kennyluck: the "32" part became 3 2 and then 서른 둘
> kennyluck: instead of 3 + the second digit marker + 2
> kennyluck: 서른 and 둘 are from the table with the caption "For values
> between 1 and 99, appropriate digits are picked from the following list
> (at most one per column) and written in descending order by value. "
> tabatkins: kennyluck: If that's true (about hangul-legal not having a
> second digit marker) I'd need that clarified.  Right now my plan is to
> just treat it as all the other cjk systems, with a fallback to the
> specified additive system for numbers below 100.
> ]]
> 
> You might also want to think about how useful this particular list type is.
> 
> [7] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2010Feb/0153  (the
> attachement)
> 
> 3.
> "word-break:keep-all" seems to be used quite often in Korean, to
> disallow breaks in a series of Hangul not separated by white spaces.
> What should happen when "word-break:keep-all" is applied with
> "word-wrap: normal"[8]? (word-wrap is a property that triggers
> "emergency wrapping" and normal is its default value)
> 
> For example, if you apply "word-break:keep-all" to, say, "안녕하세요"
> and then shrink the window until the window is smaller than "안녕하세
> 요". Should "안녕하세요" be split? I haven't tried it myself but you are
> encouraged to do some experiments.
> 
> Notice that the current draft says yes but previous version[9] said no.
> 
> [8] http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css3-text/#word-wrap

> [9]
> http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/csswg/css3-

> text/Overview.html?rev=1.17&content-type=text/html;%20charset=iso-8859-
> 1#word-wrap0
> 
> 
> You are encouraged to discuss these in Korean. After you have some
> conclusions about these issues, you are encourage to send feedback to
> the mailng list www-style [10] and Cc public-i18n-cjk [11]  list.
> 
> [10] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/

> [11] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-i18n-cjk

> 
> Sorry for not being able to write this email in Korean. Translation of
> this mail will be much appreciated!
> 
> Cheers,
> Kenny
> W3C, Internationalization Working Group Member
> 
> 
> 
> 

Received on Monday, 24 January 2011 09:39:12 UTC

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