W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > public-html-a11y@w3.org > November 2012

Re: alt text in HTML5

From: Sam Ruby <rubys@intertwingly.net>
Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2012 20:29:22 -0500
Message-ID: <50A596F2.1080103@intertwingly.net>
To: Silvia Pfeiffer <silviapfeiffer1@gmail.com>
CC: Judy Brewer <jbrewer@w3.org>, Steve Faulkner <faulkner.steve@gmail.com>, public-html-a11y@w3.org
On 11/15/2012 07:13 PM, Silvia Pfeiffer wrote:
> Judy,
>
> Is there are link to David MacDonald's document that could be shared?

I presume that this this the document in question:

http://www.davidmacd.com/WCAG/WAI/buggy.html

I encourage everybody to (re)-read the third bullet of

http://dev.w3.org/html5/decision-policy/html5-2014-plan.html#a11y-tf

> Thanks,
> Silvia.

- Sam Ruby

> On Fri, Nov 16, 2012 at 3:49 AM, Judy Brewer <jbrewer@w3.org
> <mailto:jbrewer@w3.org>> wrote:
>
>     Steve,
>
>     Brief comment below.
>
>
>     At 04:31 PM 11/15/2012 +0000, Steve Faulkner wrote:
>
>         Hi all,
>
>         chair hat off
>
>
>         My take on current situation:
>
>
>
>         In HTML5 we have a set of normative authoring requirements on
>         what are appropriate text alternatives when an <img> is used is
>         a range of contexts.
>             *
>         <http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec/__the-img-element.html#general-__guidelines
>         <http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec/the-img-element.html#general-guidelines>>4.8.1.1.1
>         General guidelines
>             *
>         <http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec/__the-img-element.html#a-link-__or-button-containing-nothing-__but-the-image
>         <http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec/the-img-element.html#a-link-or-button-containing-nothing-but-the-image>>4.8.1.1.2
>         A link or button containing nothing but the image
>             *
>         <http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec/__the-img-element.html#a-phrase-__or-paragraph-with-an-__alternative-graphical-__representation:-charts,-__diagrams,-graphs,-maps,-__illustrations
>         <http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec/the-img-element.html#a-phrase-or-paragraph-with-an-alternative-graphical-representation:-charts,-diagrams,-graphs,-maps,-illustrations>>4.8.1.1.3
>         A phrase or paragraph with an alternative graphical
>         representation: charts, diagrams, graphs, maps, illustrations
>             *
>         <http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec/__the-img-element.html#a-short-__phrase-or-label-with-an-__alternative-graphical-__representation:-icons,-logos
>         <http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec/the-img-element.html#a-short-phrase-or-label-with-an-alternative-graphical-representation:-icons,-logos>>__4.8.1.1.4
>         A short phrase or label with an alternative graphical
>         representation: icons, logos
>             *
>         <http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec/__the-img-element.html#text-__that-has-been-rendered-to-a-__graphic-for-typographical-__effect
>         <http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec/the-img-element.html#text-that-has-been-rendered-to-a-graphic-for-typographical-effect>>4.8.1.1.5
>         Text that has been rendered to a graphic for typographical effect
>             *
>         <http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec/__the-img-element.html#a-__graphical-representation-of-__some-of-the-surrounding-text
>         <http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec/the-img-element.html#a-graphical-representation-of-some-of-the-surrounding-text>>__4.8.1.1.6
>         A graphical representation of some of the surrounding text
>             *
>         <http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec/__the-img-element.html#a-purely-__decorative-image-that-doesn't-__add-any-information
>         <http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec/the-img-element.html#a-purely-decorative-image-that-doesn't-add-any-information>>4.8.1.1.7
>         A purely decorative image that doesn't add any information
>             *
>         <http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec/__the-img-element.html#a-group-__of-images-that-form-a-single-__larger-picture-with-no-links
>         <http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec/the-img-element.html#a-group-of-images-that-form-a-single-larger-picture-with-no-links>>__4.8.1.1.8
>         A group of images that form a single larger picture with no links
>             *
>         <http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec/__the-img-element.html#a-group-__of-images-that-form-a-single-__larger-picture-with-links
>         <http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec/the-img-element.html#a-group-of-images-that-form-a-single-larger-picture-with-links>>4.8.__1.1.9
>         A group of images that form a single larger picture with links
>             *
>         <http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec/__the-img-element.html#a-key-__part-of-the-content
>         <http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec/the-img-element.html#a-key-part-of-the-content>>4.8.1.1.10
>         A key part of the content
>             *
>         <http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec/__the-img-element.html#an-image-__not-intended-for-the-user
>         <http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec/the-img-element.html#an-image-not-intended-for-the-user>>4.8.__1.1.11
>         An image not intended for the user
>
>
>
>
>         NOTE: there was, but is no longer any disagreement on machine
>         checkable alt requirements in HTML5, the issues in this regards
>         have been resolved, so we are ONLY talking about the normative
>         authoring requirements that involve human judgement to interpret
>         conformance:
>
>
>
>         Some of above set of requirements diverge from WCAG 2.0 advice
>         and general agreement in the accessibility community [2].
>
>
>
>         In the history of the working group there have been attempts to:
>
>
>
>                  Get the individual requirements modified to agree with
>         WCAG 2.0
>
>                  Get the requirements be made informative instead of
>         normative
>
>                  Get the requirements moved out of the spec and instead
>         point to WCAG advice and requirements
>
>                  Get the requirements moved out of the spec and instead
>         point to the HTML5: alt techniques document.
>
>
>
>         None of the above have been successful to date.
>
>
>     Not entirely true.
>
>     Please arrange discussion with HTML Editors on alt guidance bugs,
>     using for reference the document that David MacDonald has prepared.
>
>     Philippe or myself can provide additional background as needed on
>     coordination regarding resolution options for documented bugs on alt.
>
>     - Judy
>
>
>         My personal take on what needs to occur before HTML5 becomes a
>         recommendation:
>
>
>
>         Options (from most preferred):
>
>
>
>         1.  Current normative non machine checkable requirements removed
>         from HTML5 spec, replaced with pointer to HTML5 alt document.
>         HTML5 alt document changed from normative to informative. Going
>         forward document stays in HTML WG, but becomes the
>         responsibility of the a11y taskforce.
>
>         2.  If 1 cannot be achieved then normative requirements in spec
>         change to informative and where they diverge from WCAG they are
>         modified, and a pointer to HTML5 alt document is added as a
>         reference to more detailed informative advice (alt doc changed
>         to informative and is responsibility of taskforce)
>
>         3.  If neither 1 or 2 cannot be achieved then alt techniques doc
>         stays as normative and stays where it is.
>
>         4.  If normative requirements stay in spec, but alt techniques
>         doc is forced to informative, then objection raised on HTML5
>
>
>
>
>
>         [1] <http://www.w3.org/html/wg/__wiki/IssueAltAttribute
>         <http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/IssueAltAttribute>>http://__www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/__IssueAltAttribute
>         <http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/IssueAltAttribute>
>
>
>
>         --
>         with regards
>
>         Steve Faulkner
>         Technical Director - TPG
>
>         <http://www.paciellogroup.com>__www.paciellogroup.com
>         <http://www.paciellogroup.com> | www.HTML5accessibility.com
>         <http://www.HTML5accessibility.com> |
>         <http://www.twitter.com/__stevefaulkner
>         <http://www.twitter.com/stevefaulkner>>www.twitter.com/__stevefaulkner
>         <http://www.twitter.com/stevefaulkner>
>         HTML5: Techniques for providing useful text alternatives -
>         <http://dev.w3.org/html5/alt-__techniques/
>         <http://dev.w3.org/html5/alt-techniques/>>dev.w3.org/html5/__alt-techniques/
>         <http://dev.w3.org/html5/alt-techniques/>
>         Web Accessibility Toolbar -
>         <http://www.paciellogroup.com/__resources/wat-ie-about.html
>         <http://www.paciellogroup.com/resources/wat-ie-about.html>>ww__w.paciellogroup.com/resources/__wat-ie-about.html
>         <http://www.paciellogroup.com/resources/wat-ie-about.html>
>
>
>
>
Received on Friday, 16 November 2012 01:29:56 UTC

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