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Re: alt text in HTML5

From: Silvia Pfeiffer <silviapfeiffer1@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2012 11:13:35 +1100
Message-ID: <CAHp8n2=L9aFya6=qRp3iphKEhGO7AOLjh08ky+xmqoN=v8aGmg@mail.gmail.com>
To: Judy Brewer <jbrewer@w3.org>
Cc: Steve Faulkner <faulkner.steve@gmail.com>, public-html-a11y@w3.org
Judy,

Is there are link to David MacDonald's document that could be shared?

Thanks,
Silvia.

On Fri, Nov 16, 2012 at 3:49 AM, Judy Brewer <jbrewer@w3.org> wrote:

> Steve,
>
> Brief comment below.
>
>
> At 04:31 PM 11/15/2012 +0000, Steve Faulkner wrote:
>
>  Hi all,
>>
>> chair hat off
>>
>>
>> My take on current situation:
>>
>>
>>
>> In HTML5 we have a set of normative authoring requirements on what are
>> appropriate text alternatives when an <img> is used is a range of contexts.
>>    * <http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec/**the-img-element.html#general-**
>> guidelines<http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec/the-img-element.html#general-guidelines>>4.8.1.1.1
>> General guidelines
>>    * <http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec/**the-img-element.html#a-link-**
>> or-button-containing-nothing-**but-the-image<http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec/the-img-element.html#a-link-or-button-containing-nothing-but-the-image>>4.8.1.1.2
>> A link or button containing nothing but the image
>>    * <http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec/**the-img-element.html#a-phrase-**
>> or-paragraph-with-an-**alternative-graphical-**representation:-charts,-**
>> diagrams,-graphs,-maps,-**illustrations<http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec/the-img-element.html#a-phrase-or-paragraph-with-an-alternative-graphical-representation:-charts,-diagrams,-graphs,-maps,-illustrations>>4.8.1.1.3
>> A phrase or paragraph with an alternative graphical representation: charts,
>> diagrams, graphs, maps, illustrations
>>    * <http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec/**the-img-element.html#a-short-**
>> phrase-or-label-with-an-**alternative-graphical-**
>> representation:-icons,-logos<http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec/the-img-element.html#a-short-phrase-or-label-with-an-alternative-graphical-representation:-icons,-logos>
>> >**4.8.1.1.4 A short phrase or label with an alternative graphical
>> representation: icons, logos
>>    * <http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec/**the-img-element.html#text-**
>> that-has-been-rendered-to-a-**graphic-for-typographical-**effect<http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec/the-img-element.html#text-that-has-been-rendered-to-a-graphic-for-typographical-effect>>4.8.1.1.5
>> Text that has been rendered to a graphic for typographical effect
>>    * <http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec/**the-img-element.html#a-**
>> graphical-representation-of-**some-of-the-surrounding-text<http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec/the-img-element.html#a-graphical-representation-of-some-of-the-surrounding-text>
>> >**4.8.1.1.6 A graphical representation of some of the surrounding text
>>    * <http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec/**the-img-element.html#a-purely-**
>> decorative-image-that-doesn't-**add-any-information<http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec/the-img-element.html#a-purely-decorative-image-that-doesn't-add-any-information>>4.8.1.1.7
>> A purely decorative image that doesn't add any information
>>    * <http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec/**the-img-element.html#a-group-**
>> of-images-that-form-a-single-**larger-picture-with-no-links<http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec/the-img-element.html#a-group-of-images-that-form-a-single-larger-picture-with-no-links>
>> >**4.8.1.1.8 A group of images that form a single larger picture with no
>> links
>>    * <http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec/**the-img-element.html#a-group-**
>> of-images-that-form-a-single-**larger-picture-with-links<http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec/the-img-element.html#a-group-of-images-that-form-a-single-larger-picture-with-links>
>> >4.8.**1.1.9 A group of images that form a single larger picture with
>> links
>>    * <http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec/**the-img-element.html#a-key-**
>> part-of-the-content<http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec/the-img-element.html#a-key-part-of-the-content>>4.8.1.1.10
>> A key part of the content
>>    * <http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec/**the-img-element.html#an-image-**
>> not-intended-for-the-user<http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec/the-img-element.html#an-image-not-intended-for-the-user>
>> >4.8.**1.1.11 An image not intended for the user
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> NOTE: there was, but is no longer any disagreement on machine checkable
>> alt requirements in HTML5, the issues in this regards have been resolved,
>> so we are ONLY talking about the normative authoring requirements that
>> involve human judgement to interpret conformance:
>>
>>
>>
>> Some of above set of requirements diverge from WCAG 2.0 advice and
>> general agreement in the accessibility community [2].
>>
>>
>>
>> In the history of the working group there have been attempts to:
>>
>>
>>
>>          Get the individual requirements modified to agree with WCAG 2.0
>>
>>          Get the requirements be made informative instead of normative
>>
>>          Get the requirements moved out of the spec and instead point to
>> WCAG advice and requirements
>>
>>          Get the requirements moved out of the spec and instead point to
>> the HTML5: alt techniques document.
>>
>>
>>
>> None of the above have been successful to date.
>>
>
> Not entirely true.
>
> Please arrange discussion with HTML Editors on alt guidance bugs, using
> for reference the document that David MacDonald has prepared.
>
> Philippe or myself can provide additional background as needed on
> coordination regarding resolution options for documented bugs on alt.
>
> - Judy
>
>
>  My personal take on what needs to occur before HTML5 becomes a
>> recommendation:
>>
>>
>>
>> Options (from most preferred):
>>
>>
>>
>> 1.  Current normative non machine checkable requirements removed from
>> HTML5 spec, replaced with pointer to HTML5 alt document. HTML5 alt document
>> changed from normative to informative. Going forward document stays in HTML
>> WG, but becomes the responsibility of the a11y taskforce.
>>
>> 2.  If 1 cannot be achieved then normative requirements in spec change to
>> informative and where they diverge from WCAG they are modified, and a
>> pointer to HTML5 alt document is added as a reference to more detailed
>> informative advice (alt doc changed to informative and is responsibility of
>> taskforce)
>>
>> 3.  If neither 1 or 2 cannot be achieved then alt techniques doc stays as
>> normative and stays where it is.
>>
>> 4.  If normative requirements stay in spec, but alt techniques doc is
>> forced to informative, then objection raised on HTML5
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> [1] <http://www.w3.org/html/wg/**wiki/IssueAltAttribute<http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/IssueAltAttribute>
>> >http://**www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/**IssueAltAttribute<http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/IssueAltAttribute>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> with regards
>>
>> Steve Faulkner
>> Technical Director - TPG
>>
>> <http://www.paciellogroup.com>**www.paciellogroup.com<http://www.paciellogroup.com>|
>> www.HTML5accessibility.com | <http://www.twitter.com/**stevefaulkner<http://www.twitter.com/stevefaulkner>
>> >www.twitter.com/**stevefaulkner <http://www.twitter.com/stevefaulkner>
>> HTML5: Techniques for providing useful text alternatives - <
>> http://dev.w3.org/html5/alt-**techniques/<http://dev.w3.org/html5/alt-techniques/>
>> >dev.w3.org/html5/**alt-techniques/<http://dev.w3.org/html5/alt-techniques/>
>> Web Accessibility Toolbar - <http://www.paciellogroup.com/**
>> resources/wat-ie-about.html<http://www.paciellogroup.com/resources/wat-ie-about.html>
>> >ww**w.paciellogroup.com/resources/**wat-ie-about.html<http://www.paciellogroup.com/resources/wat-ie-about.html>
>>
>
>
>
Received on Friday, 16 November 2012 00:14:22 UTC

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