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Re: no-title CP - remarks

From: Leif Halvard Silli <xn--mlform-iua@xn--mlform-iua.no>
Date: Mon, 9 May 2011 23:41:17 +0200
To: Steve Faulkner <faulkner.steve@gmail.com>
Cc: Leif Halvard Silli <xn--mlform-iua@xn--mlform-iua.no>, HTML Accessibility Task Force <public-html-a11y@w3.org>
Message-ID: <20110509234117923740.2c7bf530@xn--mlform-iua.no>
Hi Steve,

Steve Faulkner, Mon, 9 May 2011 21:24:09 +0100:
  ...
> keyboard access to title attribute content is 100% of the matter.

It definitely is a matter if the authors stuffs lots of useful info 
into @title *and* places very useless info into the @alt - thus I 
understand your *general* sceptical attitude towards reliance on 
@title. But should not be a matter at all whenever a user is using an 
UAs which displays the @title without keyboard focus. 

  ...
> webkit based mobile browsers ONLY show title when images are disabled

Even @alt is not shown unless images are disabled. So what's the issue?

>>Leif: If screenreaders treat the two images the same, then that
>>sounds like an argument in support for the Decision: we are not faced
>>with a situation where they do not get access to some fallback for the
>>image.
> 
> the point is that the fallback is not a text alternative BUT there is 
> no indication that it is not the semantics are ambiguous.

Why do *users* need to know, right there and then, that they look at 
the "wrong" fallback?

>> Leif: Unclear. I disabled images in Opera, hovered above where image
>>was supposed to be - and voila
> 
> voila only for mouse users.

That's true. My issue was that you seemed to speak more broadly. You 
should perhaps tighten up the text.

> apologies,  don't have any more time to respond to your further 
> comments at this time.

I'm grateful for your replies. Btw, on comment, on myself:

> StevePC: ' plans to follow webkit's lead' ? Chaals reply: "I don't 
> believe we have any such plan (I hope not, too)." 
>    Leif: Why not allow UAs to repair for lack of @alt using @title 
> instead of the 'Image' text that Opera now uses?

It seems that Webkit's behaviour covered by what HTML5 says about 
repairing for lack of @alt:

]] While user agents are encouraged to repair cases of missing alt 
attributes, authors must not rely on such behavior. [[

And I think that you could put it in your change proposal that HTML5 
says that authors are MUST NOT rely on such repair behaviour.
-- 
Leif H Silli
Received on Monday, 9 May 2011 21:41:47 GMT

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