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Minutes, HTML-A11Y TF on Thursday 6 May

From: Janina Sajka <janina@rednote.net>
Date: Sat, 8 May 2010 14:05:09 -0400
To: HTML Accessibility Task Force <public-html-a11y@w3.org>
Message-ID: <20100508180509.GB2315@sonata.rednote.net>
The minutes from our regular weekly teleconference on Thursday 6 May are
provided below in ASCII text and can be found as HTML at:
http://www.w3.org/2010/05/06-html-a11y-minutes.html


   W3C

                                                           - DRAFT -

                                          HTML Accessibility Task Force Teleconference

06 May 2010

   See also: IRC log

Attendees

   Present
          Ben, Cynthia_Shelly, Denis_Boudreau, Eric, Geoff_Freed, Gregory_Rosmaita, Janina_Sajka, Jim_Allan, John_Foliot,
          Marco, Mark_Hakkinen, Matt, Michael_Cooper, Mike, Rich, SteveF, kliehm

   Regrets
          Laura_Carlson, Sylvia_Pfiefer

   Chair
          Mike_Smith

   Scribe
          mattmay

Contents

     * Topics
         1. table summarry
         2. ARIA integration
         3. Canvas status
         4. Steve Faulkner needs feedback on taking the alt-techniques document to FPWD
         5. Media TF status
     * Summary of Action Items
     __________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

   <plh-home> trackbot, where am I?

   <trackbot> Sorry, plh-home, I don't understand 'trackbot, where am I?'. Please refer to
   http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc for help

   <plh-home> action-6?

   <trackbot> ACTION-6 -- Richard Schwerdtfeger to address fragments versus entire pages as alternatives with HTML WG
   members -- due 2010-01-21 -- CLOSED

   <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/track/actions/6

   <trackbot> Date: 06 May 2010

   <dboudreau> getting on phone asap, sorry for being late

   <dboudreau> merci greg

   <scribe> scribe: mattmay

table summarry

   <janina> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2010May/0054.html

   <MichaelC> drop item 4

   <MichaelC> drop item 5

   <MichaelC> drop item 6

   <MichaelC> drop item 7

   <MichaelC> drop item 8

   janina: Last week we discussed putting in a baseline on @summary for LC

   <oedipus> hixie reply: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2010May/0055.html

   <oedipus> JOC reply: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2010May/0065.html

   <oedipus> GJR reply: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2010May/0069.html

   janina: We wanted to come up with a human-generated solution to meet the deadline. We can start voting.

   <MikeSmith> CFC re ISSUE-32 "Table-Summary" (e-mail message from Janina)

   MikeSmith: We have an objection from Ian. Nothing novel.

   <janina> The HTML-A11Y Task Force supports the change proposal at

   <janina> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Summary_Change_Proposal_Nov_18,_2009

   <janina> to reinstate table summary as conforming and not +obsolete. We adopt

   <janina> this recommendation even as we continue engineering work on possible

   <janina> enhancements to table summary. However,+any enhancements we might

   <janina> propose would only elaborate on this proposal and, most particularly,

   <janina> would not remove the support +for author provided text as has been

   <janina> present in HTML4. Thus this recommendation serves as our baseline of

   <janina> table summary support.

   <MikeSmith> ,_2009 Summary Change Proposal Nov 18, 2009

   <oedipus> from GJR reply to hixie: "given the fact that those who actually use and benefit from summary are demanding
   that -- in the absence of a superior mechanism -- @summary should be retained for now as it was defined in HTML4, how
   can your theoretical and highly speculative objections override a user need?"

   MikeSmith: Consensus in the TF is that we don't want @summary to be obsolete.

   <oedipus> GJR plus 1 to @summary conforming and NOT obsolete

   janina: We want it to be conforming, and the words are in the resolution.

   <dboudreau> +1

   janina: We're going to move forward from this baseline. Trying to help HTML WG reach LC.

   <oedipus> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Table

   <oedipus> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Table_Summary

   cyns: Same CP I put forward in November: go back to HTML 4 status quo, get rid of validator warning.

   <oedipus> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposals/summary_element

   cyns: Seems like the easiest thing to do is put it back while we move forward.

   MikeSmith: I think it's in the hands of the WG chairs from here.

   <oedipus> proposed RESOLUTION: The HTML-A11Y Task Force supports the change proposal at
   http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Summary_Change_Proposal_Nov_18,_2009 to reinstate table summary as conforming and
   not +obsolete. We adopt this recommendation even as we continue engineering work on possible enhancements to table
   summary. However,+any enhancements we might propose would only elaborate on this proposal and, most particularly, would
   not remove the support +for au

   <oedipus> GJR plus 1

   <oedipus> Proposed Res continued: "Thus this recommendation serves as our baseline of table summary support."

   <JF> +1 to Resolution

   <dboudreau> in favor as well

   +1

   <Marco_Ranon> +1 to Resolution

   <kliehm> +1

   <janina> The HTML-A11Y Task Force supports the change proposal at

   <janina> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Summary_Change_Proposal_Nov_18,_2009

   <janina> to reinstate table summary as conforming and not +obsolete. We adopt

   <janina> this recommendation even as we continue engineering work on possible

   <janina> enhancements to table summary. However,+any enhancements we might

   <janina> propose would only elaborate on this proposal and, most particularly,

   <oedipus> proposed res: proposed RESOLUTION: The HTML-A11Y TF supports the change proposal at
   http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Summary_Change_Proposal_Nov_18,_2009 to reinstate table summary as conforming and
   not +obsolete. We adopt this recommendation even as we continue engineering work on possible enhancements to table
   summary.Thus this recommendation serves as our baseline of table summary support.

   <janina> would not remove the support +for author provided text as has been

   <janina> present in HTML4. Thus this recommendation serves as our baseline of

   <janina> table summary support.

   RESOLUTION: The HTML-A11Y Task Force supports the change proposal at
   http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Summary_Change_Proposal_Nov_18,_2009 to reinstate table summary as conforming and
   not obsolete. We adopt this recommendation even as we continue engineering work on possible enhancements to table
   summary.
   ... However, any enhancements we might propose would only elaborate on this proposal and, most particularly, would not
   remove the support for author-provided text as has been present in HTML4. Thus this recommendation serves as our
   baseline of table summary support.

ARIA integration

   Stevef: Aiming to finish by the end of June.

   MikeSmith: Anything blocking this?

   richardschwerdtfe: no.

   <oedipus> steveF, i will post the proposed appendix to the alt advice doc on the wiki for others with strong opinions
   to comment upon

   cyns: We've identified work items.

   <Stevef> oedipus:ok thanks

   janina: There's a 90-minute telecon for this item, Tuesdays at 1900Z.

   <MikeSmith> this is for issue 85

Canvas status

   MikeSmith: Still haven't gotten feedback on our proposal. It's in the WG chairs' hands.
   ... Also need to process imagemaps proposal.
   ... Need to form a concrete imagemap CP
   ... Feedback to the chairs by 27 May. Would like chaals to have a proposal by 13 May.

   richardschwerdtfe: On focus caret, proposal was sent out on 11 Apr. Didn't get a response. Asked Apple, Mozilla and MS
   directly. Talked with Frank Olivier, David Bolter, made edits, submitted this week. Need feedback from Apple/MS.

   <oedipus> Rich's Draft Revisons to Canvas 2D Context API (11 April 2010)
   http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2010Apr/0121.html

   <oedipus> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2010Apr/att-0121/2dcontext10-Apr-11.html

   richardschwerdtfe: We want to deliver the poll by 24 May, final proposal by 3 June.

   <oedipus> caret tracking and focus query from Rich on Canvas:
   http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2010May/0025.html

   richardschwerdtfe: Not sure how we're going to map the caret on OS X. There's a gap on Linux, but we can get that
   corrected in Linux Foundation.

   <oedipus> rich, eric offered to talk to maciej on focus and caret issues

   <Stevef> +

   eric_carlson: I will talk to Maciej.

   <richardschwerdtfe> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-canvas-api/2010AprJun/0021.html

   <oedipus> rich, 13 may is what mike said earlier

   <oedipus> dbolter reply to RichS' specific questions:
   http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2010Apr/0338.html

   <oedipus> frank olivier's initial feedback to RichS:
   http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2010Apr/0296.html

   Stevef: I've been asking about how to get the alt document published as FPWD, but no answers.

Steve Faulkner needs feedback on taking the alt-techniques document to FPWD

   MikeSmith: I'll figure it out. Shouldn't be objections to publishing.

   Stevef: The objection may be that there is normative advice.
   ... Shouldn't be a blocker, because neither it nor the HTML draft text has consensus.

   <oedipus> could file bugs against html5 after alt advice published as public draft

   <JF> Media Subgroup minutes of May 5: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2010May/0056.html

   <JF> Accessibility Requirements of Media: http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/Accessibility_Requirements_of_Media

Media TF status

   <MikeSmith> Media Subgroup minutes of May 5

   JF: We need to formalize our accessibility requirements. Need a clear and concise working plan.

   <MikeSmith> Accessibility Requirements of Media

   <oedipus> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Media_Sub-Group

   JF: We need lots of eyes on this. Log into wiki to add comments.
   ... Timed Text is an issue.

   janina: There was significant concern, particularly among developers, that spec language is being introduced for media
   that is not based on input that is being processed for the HTML WG.
   ... There was a concern that this is not W3C process.
   ... There was no objection to raising this to the WG.

   Geoff: Assuming you're talking about WebSRT. It occurred to me that I don't know who Ian is or his role.
   ... Why is he allowed to do this without consensus?

   <dboudreau> grabbong a pop corn and a coke.. this will be interestong

   <oedipus> aside from editing HTML5, hixie also edits CSS 2.1 and XUL amongst others

   janina: WHATWG process allows Ian to commit changes to HTML5 spec independently. So far, nobody has stepped up to edit
   pieces of it.

   <MikeSmith> HTML Working Group Decision Policy

   MikeSmith: HTML WG has done something unique: it's documented a decision policy that puts some authority in the hand of
   the editors. They have a measure of authority to author spec text in an editor's draft, then to put the obligation on
   people to object and produce change proposals.

   <JF> +1 to matt

   <oedipus> geoff, WHAT WG is located (surprisingly) at http://www.whatwg.org/

   <oedipus> MM: voices objections about antagonism which seems to be part of the HTML WG dysfunction

   <oedipus> plus 1

   JF: This was deliberately provocative. There was lots of discussion of DFXP/SRT, the results of which showed that we
   were all on the same page. Some grudging acceptance of getting SRT out the door, but also DFXP. Then, to have the
   WHATWG throw something like WebSRT.
   ... I think the chairs need to do something to stop this process.

   MikeSmith: We need to discuss this with the chairs. Once it's in the spec, it increases the work we have to do to make
   further changes.

   <oedipus> also being implemented by fiat despite w3c boilerplate disclaimers on instability of spec in development

   Stevef: This has already been discussed on Ajaxian as "the captioning standard for HTML5". Going to be hard to extract.

   <JF> the text in question: http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec/video.html#websrt

   <dboudreau> take care all

   <Marco_Ranon> bye

Summary of Action Items

   [End of minutes]
     __________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Found Scribe: mattmay
Present: Ben Cynthia_Shelly Denis_Boudreau Eric Geoff_Freed Gregory_Rosmaita Janina_Sajka Jim_Allan John_Foliot Marco Mark_Hakk
inen Matt Michael_Cooper Mike Rich SteveF kliehm
Regrets: Laura_Carlson Sylvia_Pfiefer
Found Date: 06 May 2010
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2010/05/05-html-a11y-minutes.html
People with action items:

-- 

Janina Sajka,	Phone:	+1.443.300.2200
		sip:janina@asterisk.rednote.net

Chair, Open Accessibility	janina@a11y.org	
Linux Foundation		http://a11y.org

Chair, Protocols & Formats
Web Accessibility Initiative	http://www.w3.org/wai/pf
World Wide Web Consortium (W3C)
Received on Saturday, 8 May 2010 18:05:39 GMT

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