- From: Philippe Le Hegaret <plh@w3.org>
- Date: Wed, 05 May 2010 20:59:42 -0400
- To: public-html-a11y@w3.org
Available at
http://www.w3.org/2010/05/05-html-a11y-minutes.html
Text version:
HTML Accessibility Task Force (Media) Teleconference
05 May 2010
See also: [2]IRC log
[2] http://www.w3.org/2010/05/05-html-a11y-irc
Attendees
Present
Janina, Michael_Cooper, Mark_Hakkinen, Judy, Frank_Olivier,
Sean_Hayes, Kenny, Eric, plh, John_Foliot, Silvia
Regrets
Goeff
Chair
Janina_Sajka
Scribe
plh
Contents
* [3]Topics
1. [4]Actions Review
2. [5]Process
3. [6]Requirements Gathering
* [7]Summary of Action Items
_________________________________________________________
<Judy> agenda item 1 was action item check : requirements gathering,
not done
<Judy> agenda item 2 was process:
Actions Review
Janina: the only open action item is for John to create the
requirements.
Process
Janina: elephant in the room was process problem; we lost a
participant; please bear in mind that we need to be able to listen
to each other, not cut off, etc.
Requirements Gathering
Janina: we're still waiting on John for providing the requirements
... he is facing an unexpected work load at the moment
Judy: just sent email. was concerned we didn't have a unified set of
requirements for accessibility of media in HTML5.
... I briefly characterized each of the links providing by John last
week
... [Judy is covering materials in email]
... if anyone is aware of additional resources for requirements,
please add it to the thread
... and then either John or someone will have time to compile them
... I also wanted to give an indication of gaps that I'm seeing or
hearing about
... I want to make sure we're documenting requirements for folks
with mutiple disabilities.
... are we capturing requirements for people with cognitive
disabilities?
... documenting requirements for video description
... requirements for structured navigation
... those are concerns that I have
Janina: how to proceed from disabilities and then to the kind of
accommodations or the reverse?
Judy: I'm suggesting to collect the requirements first
Janina: who is willing to help gather requirements? I'm willing to
help on structural nav. Maybe Kenny can help as well on that.
Mark: some papers from the late 90s, specifically WWW2002 conf,
could help. could send pointers.
Sean: while we're busy making requirements, they're busy putting
text into the spec right now. should we slow them down a bit?
Janina: don't know what to say about someone moving forward adding
features knowing we're working on this. it shouldn't impact the fact
that we need to do the job properly
... if they guess right, fine, otherwise they'll have to redo the
work.
Kenny: sharing Sean concerns, the proposal of using the track
element is already there in the spec.
... the video and audio elements now have examples with the track
element
... along with SRT
Janina: those are solutions that we may end up adopting, but need to
focus on the requirements
... who can take on descriptive video?
Sean: I'd be happy to volunteer for some of that
<scribe> ACTION: Sean to look into descriptive video requirements
[recorded in
[8]http://www.w3.org/2010/05/05-html-a11y-minutes.html#action01]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-29 - Look into descriptive video
requirements [on Sean Hayes - due 2010-05-12].
<scribe> ACTION: Janina to look into structural navigation
requirements [recorded in
[9]http://www.w3.org/2010/05/05-html-a11y-minutes.html#action02]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-30 - Look into structural navigation
requirements [on Janina Sajka - due 2010-05-12].
Kenny: I'll be happy to help on structural nav requirements as well
Janina: captioning, who can do that? Goeff isn't around at the
moment
Judy: I'm interested in getting the disability requirements around
captions
<Judy> ACTION: jb follow up w/ Geoff on comprehensiveness of
captioning requirements [recorded in
[10]http://www.w3.org/2010/05/05-html-a11y-minutes.html#action03]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-31 - Follow up w/ Geoff on
comprehensiveness of captioning requirements [on Judy Brewer - due
2010-05-12].
<Judy> ACTION: jb follow up w/ Gunnar Hellstrom on comprehensiveness
of secondary signed channel requirements [recorded in
[11]http://www.w3.org/2010/05/05-html-a11y-minutes.html#action04]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-32 - Follow up w/ Gunnar Hellstrom on
comprehensiveness of secondary signed channel requirements [on Judy
Brewer - due 2010-05-12].
Janina: what else in terms of requirements gathering? thank you Jim
for sending requirements in btw
-->
[12]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2010May/002
4.html UAAG 2.0 guidelines for video
[12] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2010May/0024.html
Sean: what about clear audio used in the UK? isolating audio from
the audio background
Michael: re concurrent editing of the HTML spec. that's not our
problem but we need to set a date at which we will provide a
proposal to the WG and then editing will be expected.
Frank: My concern is that the spec has WebSRT *and* the concepts of
cues; there has not been enough discussion of this
Janina: should we communicate worries to the HTML WG here?
Frank: yes, we all know that once language into the spec, it has a
tendency to stay
Janina: I'd like to advance our discussion on requirements further
... the whole point is not to drag the process but move it to a
conclusion
Judy: wanted to respond to Sean re clear audio. that's the kind of
things we want to capture.
... there are similar types of provisions
... can we fix the spelling mistake in the wiki?
Allan: we need keyboard controls, that are native to the browser. we
would want to avoid thousands of interfaces out there
plh:we should allow th page author to write their own keyboard
controls
Allan: user override is nice but the default controls should be
there.
Janina: API for controls?
Allan: possibly yes.
Janina: play, pause, caption on, etc.
plh: video producing companies want to have full control of their
user epxerience, so you will see lots of video interfaces out there,
developed using scripting, bound to keys, etc. You should allow the
web author to write their own control
Eric: the best we can do is to ensure that everything that the
browsers can do is also possibly through javascript
Janina: so that the assistive technology can use those
Allan: the user still needs to be able to control the video.
whatever the author do should be mapped to the browser functions.
... if I don't use a screenreader, simply using my keyboard, I
should still be able to use well-known keys
Janina: we have to be careful in defining not to enter in system
specific
Allan: some basics are possible, like using tab to go through the
controls
Sean: we need to add transcripts
<JF> re: Janina's point - it should be mappable to *a* key -
unspecified. It is common today to see laptops and 3rd party
keyboards, etc. that have dedicated volume keys
Sean: need some kind of labeling to them.
... separate from captioning
Janina: and the transcript may or may not be in sync with the audio
Sean: they key is to have something labeled as a transcript, and not
captions
Janina: where should we add this?
[Silvia and John join the call]
Silvia: re keyboard controls. firefox has implemented keyboard
controls. you can change volume, seek, etc.
Judy: let's focus in requirements first
Janina: from those present today, we would want to support controls
in HTML5 user agent
... we didn't go beyond that
... we're gathering requirements together
<AllanJ> +1 to controls and as rich a set as conceivable, author can
always turn off function if it is not needed
John: I'll manage the wiki but people should try to add stuff there
themselves
Judy: looking for a home for the requirements in the wiki....
Janina: I'm proposing to start a new page.
Judy: works for me.
... can John make progress on the framework?
<silvia> +1 to new page
John: I could work on that this evening
... I'll get the page started
Frank: I'll work on requirements on scripts firing events and the
concept of cues
... making interactive, etc.
Janina: it's not necessarily captions
Frank: agreed but we need some way from the caption to see that
something happened
... I'll look into architectural requirements
Janina: we wanted to start by the user requirements first
Judy: we might as well capture architectural requirements at the
time
<scribe> ACTION: Sean to write transcript requirements [recorded in
[13]http://www.w3.org/2010/05/05-html-a11y-minutes.html#action06]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-34 - Write transcript requirements [on
Sean Hayes - due 2010-05-12].
<scribe> ACTION: Frank to write cues requirements [recorded in
[14]http://www.w3.org/2010/05/05-html-a11y-minutes.html#action07]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-35 - Write cues requirements [on Frank
Olivier - due 2010-05-12].
Janina: any other volunteer for architectural or user requirements?
[none heard]
Janina: next step: concerns from Frank
Frank: we're talking in this meeting about doing requirements and
technical investigation. in /// things get added to the spec,
increasing our challenge
... we should have consensus about what we add to the spec and there
is no consensus at this point
Judy: suggest to take the action item to come up with date for our
input and to answer that, with a request to clarify the process
going on here
Janina: I was asked where this group was and I asserted that we
would have requirements by late may
Silvia: I can well understand the concern with the spec
... trying to involve in that process and gives feedback as much as
possible
... Ian has put together requirements
... those may not be complete
... we need to verify Ian's way of thinking'
... as long as it's just text in the spec, anything can change
... harder after implementations
... let's not stop progress. let's recommend that the browser
vendors don't implement anything yet until we're done with our
requirements
Frank: it's interesting proposal but it seems that inappropriate to
have text in the spec and says not to pay attention. also it's not a
placeholder but it's a fairly detailed spec
Silvia: for a browser vendor to implement this, he filled in plenty
of details
... but obviously we need to look at it
... it wouldn't be a problem to recommend to hold back on the
implementation
Judy: when there is text in the spec, it does indeed get
implemented. ideas are welcome outside of the spec text. the text
says that video accessible is holding up last call
... the TF has an action from the HTML WG to offer a date for input
<silvia> +1 to Judy
Judy: we should combine our date with a request not to put text in
the spec at the moment
... to avoid confusing the dialog
<frankolivier> +1 Judy; the spec should not contain text that does
not have the concensus of the relevant group
Sean: also the text has some ressemblance with our requirements,
we're not done with those and it's premature to add this spec.
Silvia: re premature to have a proposal in the spec. for a lot of
the things that needs to be developed, I don't think we have all the
background and knowledge in this group.
... it's not bad thing that it progressed into a larger group
... it's necessary to revalidate what we have
... we should make the best of it in a constructive way
John: I disagree. things in the editors draft get entrenched
... it seems antagonistic to me
Frank: I also disagree. we have representatives from Mozilla,
webkit/safari, and IE here
... so not sure what technical expertise you're referring to
Janina: is there an objection to convey concerns about text going in
the spec in advance of this group sending the requirements
Judy: I support to convey concerns from this group about the next
text addition in the spec.
... let's recheck our requirements before starting to compare them
to a technical proposal
Janina: is there anyone else opposing except Silvia?
Silvia: I'd like to see the exact wording
... I do have an issue with stopping progress
<scribe> ACTION: Janina to draft the message re date and text to
send to HTML WG [recorded in
[15]http://www.w3.org/2010/05/05-html-a11y-minutes.html#action08]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-36 - Draft the message re date and text to
send to HTML WG [on Janina Sajka - due 2010-05-12].
Janina: I'll report concerns on the call tomorrow
[adjourned]
Summary of Action Items
[NEW] ACTION: Frank to write cues requirements [recorded in
[16]http://www.w3.org/2010/05/05-html-a11y-minutes.html#action07]
[NEW] ACTION: Janina to draft the message re date and text to send
to HTML WG [recorded in
[17]http://www.w3.org/2010/05/05-html-a11y-minutes.html#action08]
[NEW] ACTION: Janina to look into structural navigation requirements
[recorded in
[18]http://www.w3.org/2010/05/05-html-a11y-minutes.html#action02]
[NEW] ACTION: jb follow up w/ Geoff on comprehensiveness of
captioning requirements [recorded in
[19]http://www.w3.org/2010/05/05-html-a11y-minutes.html#action03]
[NEW] ACTION: jb follow up w/ Gunnar Hellstrom on comprehensiveness
of secondary signed channel requirements [recorded in
[20]http://www.w3.org/2010/05/05-html-a11y-minutes.html#action04]
[NEW] ACTION: Sean to draft transcript requirements [recorded in
[21]http://www.w3.org/2010/05/05-html-a11y-minutes.html#action05]
[NEW] ACTION: Sean to look into descriptive video requirements
[recorded in
[22]http://www.w3.org/2010/05/05-html-a11y-minutes.html#action01]
[End of minutes]
Received on Thursday, 6 May 2010 00:59:50 UTC