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Re: Teleconference minutes for 11 Apr 2007

From: Harry Halpin <hhalpin@ibiblio.org>
Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2007 14:13:49 -0400
Message-ID: <46250E5D.7070301@ibiblio.org>
To: Jeremy Carroll <jjc@hpl.hp.com>
Cc: ogbujic@ccf.org, GRDDL Working Group <public-grddl-wg@w3.org>

I'll just add this to the agenda as a re-approve - it appears to have
just been a cut and paste buffer mishap - as I'm making the new agenda
now...

Jeremy Carroll wrote:
>
>
> I note a problem with
>
> the approval for
> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/grddl-wg/td/grddl-tests.html#sq2
>
> i.e.
> [[
> scribe:  http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/grddl-wg/td/grddl-tests.html#inline
>
> <HarryH> PROPOSAL:
> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/grddl-wg/td/grddl-tests.html#inline is a
> valid test for test-case document.
>
> <HarryH> RESOLVED:
> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/grddl-wg/td/grddl-tests.html#inline is a
> valid test for test-case document.
>
> scribe:http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/grddl-wg/td/grddl-tests.html#sq2
>
> scribe:the ns document is served as application/rdf+xml (no
> controversy there)
>
> <HarryH> PROPOSED:
> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/grddl-wg/td/grddl-tests.html#inline is a
> valid test for test-case document.
>
> <HarryH> RESOLVED:
> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/grddl-wg/td/grddl-tests.html#inline is a
> valid test for test-case document.
> ]]
>
> The scribe comments are what I remember - we approved
> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/grddl-wg/td/grddl-tests.html#inline
> and then
> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/grddl-wg/td/grddl-tests.html#sq2
>
> the chair seems to have typed in the same URI twice.
>
> I would be happy either to approve the minutes as is, and vote again
> on #sq2, or to have the minutes modified.
>
> Jeremy
>
>
>
> Chimezie Ogbuji wrote:
>> .. attached ..
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> W3C <http://www.w3.org/>
>>
>>
>>   GRDDL Working Group Weekly Teleconference
>>
>>
>>     11 Apr 2007
>>
>> See also: IRC log <http://www.w3.org/2007/04/11-grddl-wg-irc>
>>
>>
>>     Attendees
>>
>> Present
>>     john-l, HarryH, Chimezie_Ogbuji, FabienG, +0127368aaaa, jjc,
>>     briansuda, rreck, DanC
>> Regrets
>>     IanD
>>     Simone
>> Chair
>>     HarryH
>> Scribe
>>     Chime
>>
>>
>>     Contents
>>
>>     * Topics <#agenda>
>>          1. Convene GRDDL WG meeting of 2007-04-10T11:00-0400 <#item01>
>>          2. GRDDL Spec: pending editorial work <#item02>
>>          3. Test Cases: Towards Last Call <#item03>
>>          4. issue-http-header-links <#item04>
>>          5. base case GRDDL rule and application/xml documents <#item05>
>>          6. GRDDL Spec: pending editorial work <#item06>
>>     * Summary of Action Items <#ActionSummary>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
>>       Convene GRDDL WG meeting of 2007-04-10T11:00-0400
>>
>> <HarryH> PROPOSED: to approve GRDDL WG Weekly --4 April 2007 as a
>> true record
>>
>> <HarryH> So note the real minutes are here:
>>
>> <HarryH>
>> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-grddl-wg/2007Apr/att-0039/04-grddl-wg-minutes.html
>>
>>
>> <HarryH> RESOLVED : approved GRDDL WG Weekly --4 April 2007 as a true
>> record
>>
>> <HarryH> Reck will be scribe next meeting.
>>
>> <HarryH> Jeremy?
>>
>> <HarryH> Jeremy can scribe next meeting.
>>
>>
>>       GRDDL Spec: pending editorial work
>>
>> <HarryH> DanC?
>>
>> <HarryH> Without DanC, I suggest we move to Test Cases.
>>
>>
>>       Test Cases: Towards Last Call
>>
>> scribe:
>> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-grddl-wg/2007Apr/0031.html
>>
>> scribe:
>> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/grddl-wg/td/grddl-tests.html#projectsSpreadsheet
>>
>>
>> input: http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/grddl-wg/td/projects.xml
>>
>> outpu: http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/grddl-wg/td/projects.rdf
>>
>> scribe:prior approval:
>> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-grddl-wg/2006Nov/att-0096/22-grddl-wg-minutes.html#item03
>>
>>
>> <HarryH> PROPOSAL: Approve
>> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/grddl-wg/td/grddl-tests.html#projectsSpreadsheet
>> as a valid test for test-case document.
>>
>> <HarryH> RESOLVED: Approved
>> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/grddl-wg/td/grddl-tests.html#projectsSpreadsheet
>> as a valid test for test-case document.
>>
>> jjc: prefer test approval for material, and review WD as a whole
>> (with test text)
>>
>> john-l: same preference
>>
>> <HarryH> *ACTION:* john-l to add text to
>> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/grddl-wg/td/grddl-tests.html#projectsSpreadsheet
>> [recorded in
>> http://www.w3.org/2007/04/11-grddl-wg-minutes.html#action01]
>>
>> <HarryH> *ACTION:* john-l is to add text to any tests many text where
>> deemed appropriate. [recorded in
>> http://www.w3.org/2007/04/11-grddl-wg-minutes.html#action02]
>>
>> Remaining tests with prior approval:
>>
>> scribe: http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/grddl-wg/td/grddl-tests.html#atomttl1
>>
>> scribe:
>> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/grddl-wg/td/grddl-tests.html#xmlWithGrddlAttribute
>>
>>
>> <HarryH> PROPOSED: To reapprove in bulk all tests with prior approval.
>>
>> <HarryH> RESOLVED: all tests with prior approval approved.
>>
>> scribe:
>> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/grddl-wg/td/grddl-tests.html#base-param
>>
>> <HarryH> PROPOSED:
>> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/grddl-wg/td/grddl-tests.html#base-param as
>> a valid test for test-case document.
>>
>> <HarryH> RESOLVED:
>> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/grddl-wg/td/grddl-tests.html#base-param as
>> a valid test for test-case document.
>>
>> scribe:http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/grddl-wg/td/grddl-tests.html#rdfa1
>>
>> HarryH: we should approve this noting that the stylesheet may be updated
>>
>> FabienG: 1) difference btwn implementation 2) RDFa spec is not stable
>>
>> jjc: text should reflect that the transform does not reflect a
>> general RDFa transform
>>
>> FabienG: works fine WRT the test case
>>
>> FabienG: should the transform predicate be included in the output?
>>
>> FabienG: at F2F - the transform is ignored
>>
>> <HarryH> PROPOSAL:
>> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/grddl-wg/td/grddl-tests.html#rdfa1 as a
>> valid test for test-case document.
>>
>> <HarryH> *ACTION:* john-l to make sure rdfa1 test case text reflects
>> current state of rdfa [recorded in
>> http://www.w3.org/2007/04/11-grddl-wg-minutes.html#action03]
>>
>> <HarryH> APPROVED: Given caveat about current state of rdfa,
>> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/grddl-wg/td/grddl-tests.html#rdfa1 as a
>> valid test for test-case document.
>>
>> scribe:
>> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/grddl-wg/td/grddl-tests.html#title_author
>>
>> <HarryH> PROPOSAL:
>> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/grddl-wg/td/grddl-tests.html#title_author
>> is a valid test for test-case document.
>>
>> <HarryH> RESOLVED:
>> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/grddl-wg/td/grddl-tests.html#title_author
>> is a valid test for test-case document.
>>
>> scribe:
>> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/grddl-wg/td/grddl-tests.html#multiprofile
>>
>> scribe:<head profile="http://purl.org/NET/erdf/profile
>>
>> <HarryH> PROPOSAL:
>> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/grddl-wg/td/grddl-tests.html#multiprofile
>> is a valid test for test-case document.
>>
>> scribe:>http://www.w3.org/2006/03/hcard">
>>
>> jjc: possibility that changes to the profile effected validity of output
>>
>> <john-l> +1
>>
>> jjc: we should copy these profiles to our test repository
>>
>> <john-l> (+1 to that, rather)
>>
>> jjc: would like to see the test modified in that regard
>>
>> <HarryH> *ACTION:* jjc to do modify
>> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/grddl-wg/td/grddl-tests.html#multiprofile
>> to keep all profiles in W3C space. [recorded in
>> http://www.w3.org/2007/04/11-grddl-wg-minutes.html#action04]
>>
>> <jjc> ^W3C^GRDDL WG^
>>
>> scribe: http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/grddl-wg/td/grddl-tests.html#inline
>>
>> <HarryH> PROPOSAL:
>> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/grddl-wg/td/grddl-tests.html#inline is a
>> valid test for test-case document.
>>
>> <HarryH> RESOLVED:
>> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/grddl-wg/td/grddl-tests.html#inline is a
>> valid test for test-case document.
>>
>> scribe:http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/grddl-wg/td/grddl-tests.html#sq2
>>
>> scribe:the ns document is served as application/rdf+xml (no
>> controversy there)
>>
>> <HarryH> PROPOSED:
>> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/grddl-wg/td/grddl-tests.html#inline is a
>> valid test for test-case document.
>>
>> <HarryH> RESOLVED:
>> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/grddl-wg/td/grddl-tests.html#inline is a
>> valid test for test-case document.
>>
>> <HarryH> Chime: What all the controversial ones have is a "multiple
>> output" sort of one.
>>
>> scribe:
>> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/grddl-wg/td/grddl-tests.html#multiple-output
>>
>> scribe:the tests with maximal results are less ambiguous
>>
>> jjc: for the langconneg ppl probably pass the english version but not
>> the german version
>>
>> jjc: is there a maximal result of the merge of the english and german
>> GRDDL results?
>>
>> scribe:to calculate the maximal result, dont yo uneed to know the
>> accept headers up front?
>>
>> jjc: technically possible
>>
>> <DanC_lap> (I'd be happy to leave the german test in the someday pile.)
>>
>> scribe: not neccessary for testing phase
>>
>> <DanC_lap> (actually, the IETF rules is included in W3C process, as a
>> SHOULD)
>>
>> <DanC_lap> (is discussion of our request for CR/PR on the agenda?)
>>
>> <jjc> (transparent content negotiation)
>>
>> scribe: http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/grddl-wg/td/grddl-tests.html#xinclude
>>
>> jjc: Jena reader passes the noxinclude version
>>
>> scribe:
>> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-grddl-comments/2007AprJun/0010.html
>>
>>
>> scribe:[[[
>>
>> * http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/grddl-wg/td/#noxinclude failed
>>
>> ok: since raptor does do xinclude processing this is ok to fail
>>
>> ]]]
>>
>> <HarryH> (I'm happy to discuss CR/PR is we have time. In particular,
>> as soon as I get EARL from Jena I'll make an implementation report,
>> but I need Jena's results and the precise number of tests to be
>> approved)
>>
>> <jjc> EARL from Jena this week ... hopefully
>>
>> HarryH: as long as implementations pass noxinclude I'm happy
>>
>> jjc: agrees.. but we need enough evidence
>>
>> scribe:
>> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/grddl-wg/td/grddl-tests.html#noxinclude
>>
>> <HarryH> PROPOSAL:
>> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/grddl-wg/td/grddl-tests.html#xinclude is a
>> valid test for test-case document.
>>
>> <HarryH> PROPOSAL:
>> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/grddl-wg/td/grddl-tests.html#xinclude and
>> ihttp://www.w3.org/2001/sw/grddl-wg/td/grddl-tests.html#noxinclude as
>> a valid test for test-case document.
>>
>> <DanC_lap> is the .html on purpose?
>>
>> <HarryH> PROPOSAL:
>> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/grddl-wg/td/grddl-tests#xinclude and
>> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/grddl-wg/td/grddl-tests#noxinclude as a
>> valid test for test-case document.
>>
>> <DanC_lap> 2nd
>>
>> <HarryH> For previous resolutsions regards tests s/.html//
>>
>> <DanC_lap> yes, s/.html#/#/g in resolutions of this meeting
>>
>> <HarryH> APPROVED:
>> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/grddl-wg/td/grddl-tests#xinclude and
>> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/grddl-wg/td/grddl-tests#noxinclude as a
>> valid test for test-case document.
>>
>> scribe: http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/grddl-wg/td/grddl-tests#grddlonrdf1
>>
>> scribe: http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/grddl-wg/td/grddl-tests#grddlonrdf2
>>
>> scribe: http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/grddl-wg/td/grddl-tests#grddlonrdf3
>>
>> scribe:if a test passes the third, can it assume it has passed the
>> others?
>>
>> scribe:the maximal result is not isomorphic with the others
>>
>> <DanC_lap> (tests don't assume anything; they're not thinking things)
>>
>> <HarryH> \me asks DanC - can you take over chairing at noon? I still
>> have these meetings at noon on Wed. till early May :(
>>
>> jjc: issues with the test text
>>
>> <DanC_lap> chairing... tricky... perhaps, if we start making the
>> transition 10 minutes before you need to go.
>>
>> scribe:so is "However, for the purpose of running these tests in
>> order to determine compliance, a GRDDL-aware agent with a security
>> policy which does not prevent it from applying transformations
>> identified by each test will produce the GRDDL result associated with
>> each normative test.
>>
>> scribe:" authoritative?
>>
>> jjc: happy to approve number 3, and modify text of 1-2
>>
>> <jjc> no delete 1-2
>>
>> <jjc> annd modify text of 3
>>
>> <HarryH> Note that I can't right CR transition till our test cases
>> are fairly stable, so this test approval process is quite important.
>>
>> <DanC_lap> you can start on the CR request at any time, harry. I find
>> it's often good to work backwards from the goal
>>
>> <DanC_lap> or perhaps somebody else can start on the CR request
>>
>> <HarryH> *ACTION:* Chime and john-l to remove non-maximal tests with
>> ones with security relevancy. [recorded in
>> http://www.w3.org/2007/04/11-grddl-wg-minutes.html#action06]
>>
>> <DanC_lap> action -5
>>
>> jjc: issues with general conneg and what the 'maximal' result is
>>
>> <HarryH> *ACTION:* HarryH to start working on CR/PR transition report
>> for GRDDL Spec. [recorded in
>> http://www.w3.org/2007/04/11-grddl-wg-minutes.html#action07]
>>
>> jjc: would like to see the merge as a seperate test for conneg
>>
>> <jjc> *ACTION:* jjc to produce/check merge results involving content
>> negotiation [recorded in
>> http://www.w3.org/2007/04/11-grddl-wg-minutes.html#action08]
>>
>>
>>       issue-http-header-links
>>
>> <HarryH> I'm happy to drop this.
>>
>> <HarryH> I'm happy to e-mail IanD and ask him to drop this.
>>
>> <DanC_lap> WITHDRAWN. it falls to the someday pile. bonus points to
>> anybody who picks this up and makes progress on it.
>>
>>
>>       base case GRDDL rule and application/xml documents
>>
>> scribe:
>> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-grddl-comments/2007AprJun/0010.html
>>
>>
>> scribe:[[[
>>
>> I do notice http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/grddl-wg/td/sq1ns
>>
>> is not of the RDF mime type, should it really be handled
>>
>> as RDF/XML?
>>
>> ]]]
>>
>> <DanC_lap> DanC: this WG decided that the answer is yes, IIRC.
>>
>> scribe:does this require the GRDDL-aware agent to attempt to parse
>> all source documents as RDF/XML?
>>
>> <HarryH> I thought there was a rule about this sort of sniffing.
>>
>> <john-l> All application/xml source documents...
>>
>> <HarryH> I.e. look for rdf:RDF.
>>
>> scribe:the spec doesn't speak about media-type
>>
>> scribe:just 'conforming RDF/XML'
>>
>> <john-l> But if it's conforming RDF/XML, then it must also be XML, so
>> anything that's not in an XML media type could not be a conforming
>> RDF/XML document.
>>
>> scribe:RDF/XML spec doesn't define conformance by anything other than
>> the content not the media-type over the wire
>>
>> <HarryH> In which case we're okay as regards RDF/XML.
>>
>> <HarryH> So, one can serve RDF/XML as application/xml and still
>> interpret it as RDF.
>>
>> <HarryH> We might want to bring this up explicitly in informative text.
>>
>> <HarryH> However, we should remember that we don't want to tie the
>> spec to RDF/XML.
>>
>> <DanC_lap> the relevant WG decision is under feb 7 under
>> http://www.w3.org/2004/01/rdxh/spec#issue-mt-ns
>>
>> <jjc>
>> http://www.w3.org/TR/rdf-syntax-grammar/#section-grammar-productions
>>
>> scribe: discussion continues on what RDF/XML 'conformance' is ..
>>
>> <DanC_lap> "If an information resource IR is represented by a
>> conforming RDF/XML document[RDFX], then the RDF graph represented by
>> that document is a GRDDL result of IR"
>>
>> <HarryH> What if IR is in N3?
>>
>> <HarryH> Sorry for asking the question :(
>>
>> <HarryH> It's a real edge-case.
>>
>> <DanC_lap> then the premise of that rule isn't satisfied and you
>> gotta look elsewhere, Harry
>>
>> <HarryH> Hmmm...
>>
>> <DanC_lap> <foo/>
>>
>> <HarryH> Is there a notion of RDF conformance that isn't tied to
>> RDF/XML?
>>
>> DanC_lap: is a conforming RDF/XML document
>>
>> <DanC_lap> <foo xmlns="http://example/vocab" />
>>
>> <HarryH> I'll just have to re-read the spec and look for
>> this...anyways, feel free to ignore my comments as I'm not on the phone.
>>
>> <jjc> If an information resource IR is represented by a conforming
>> RDF/XML document[RDFX], then the RDF graph represented by that
>> document is a GRDDL result of IR.
>>
>> <john-l> What about what
>> http://www.w3.org/TR/rdf-syntax-grammar/#section-grammar-productions
>> about application/rdf+xml?
>>
>> scribe:http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/grddl-wg/td/grddl-tests#sq1
>>
>> <DanC_lap> DanC nominates jjc to review this sq1 test
>>
>> <DanC_lap> JJC: sq1 is not problematic; it bears the rdf:RDF root
>> element
>>
>> <DanC_lap> ... or... hmm...
>>
>> <DanC_lap> (the TAG concurred with the idea that the root element
>> namespace URI works as an alternative to a MIME type decl)
>>
>> <HarryH> +` root element namespace URI working as an alternatie to
>> MIME type.
>>
>> <HarryH> +1
>>
>> <DanC_lap> *ACTION:* JohnL to draft refinement to "If an information
>> resource IR is represented by a conforming RDF/XML document[RDFX],
>> then the RDF graph represented by that document is a GRDDL result of
>> IR" to be clear that "some other means", for our purposes, is a
>> namespace on the root elt [recorded in
>> http://www.w3.org/2007/04/11-grddl-wg-minutes.html#action09]
>>
>>
>>       GRDDL Spec: pending editorial work
>>
>> <DanC_lap> DanC collects advice on the xml pi appendix
>>
>> <DanC_lap> ADJOURN
>>
>>
>>     Summary of Action Items
>>
>> *[NEW]* *ACTION:* Chime and john-l to remove non-maximal tests with
>> ones with security relevancy. [recorded in
>> http://www.w3.org/2007/04/11-grddl-wg-minutes.html#action06]
>> *[NEW]* *ACTION:* HarryH to start working on CR/PR transition report
>> for GRDDL Spec. [recorded in
>> http://www.w3.org/2007/04/11-grddl-wg-minutes.html#action07]
>> *[NEW]* *ACTION:* jjc to do modify
>> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/grddl-wg/td/grddl-tests.html#multiprofile
>> to keep all profiles in W3C space. [recorded in
>> http://www.w3.org/2007/04/11-grddl-wg-minutes.html#action04]
>> *[NEW]* *ACTION:* jjc to produce/check merge results involving
>> content negotiation [recorded in
>> http://www.w3.org/2007/04/11-grddl-wg-minutes.html#action08]
>> *[NEW]* *ACTION:* john-l is to add text to any tests many text where
>> deemed appropriate. [recorded in
>> http://www.w3.org/2007/04/11-grddl-wg-minutes.html#action02]
>> *[NEW]* *ACTION:* john-l to add text to
>> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/grddl-wg/td/grddl-tests.html#projectsSpreadsheet
>> [recorded in
>> http://www.w3.org/2007/04/11-grddl-wg-minutes.html#action01]
>> *[NEW]* *ACTION:* john-l to make sure rdfa1 test case text reflects
>> current state of rdfa [recorded in
>> http://www.w3.org/2007/04/11-grddl-wg-minutes.html#action03]
>> *[NEW]* *ACTION:* JohnL to draft refinement to "If an information
>> resource IR is represented by a conforming RDF/XML document[RDFX],
>> then the RDF graph represented by that document is a GRDDL result of
>> IR" to be clear that "some other means", for our purposes, is a
>> namespace on the root elt [recorded in
>> http://www.w3.org/2007/04/11-grddl-wg-minutes.html#action09]
>>  
>> [End of minutes]
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Minutes formatted by David Booth's scribe.perl
>> <http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/%7Echeckout%7E/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm>
>> version 1.128 (CVS log <http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2002/scribe/>)
>> $Date: 2007/04/11 16:28:35 $
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
>>     Scribe.perl diagnostic output
>>
>> [Delete this section before finalizing the minutes.]
>>
>> This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.128  of Date: 2007/02/23 21:38:13 
>> Check for newer version at
>> http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/
>> <http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/%7Echeckout%7E/2002/scribe/>
>>
>> Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00)
>>
>> No ScribeNick specified.  Guessing ScribeNick: chimezie
>> Found Scribe: Chime
>> Default Present: john-l, HarryH, Chimezie_Ogbuji, FabienG,
>> +0127368aaaa, jjc, briansuda, rreck, DanC
>> Present: john-l HarryH Chimezie_Ogbuji FabienG +0127368aaaa jjc
>> briansuda rreck DanC
>> Regrets: IanD
>>
>> WARNING: No meeting title found!
>> You should specify the meeting title like this:
>> <dbooth> Meeting: Weekly Baking Club Meeting
>>
>> Got date from IRC log name: 11 Apr 2007
>> Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2007/04/11-grddl-wg-minutes.html
>> People with action items: chime harryh is jjc john-l johnl
>>
>> WARNING: Input appears to use implicit continuation lines.
>> You may need the "-implicitContinuations" option.
>>
>>
>>
>> [End of scribe.perl
>> <http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/%7Echeckout%7E/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm>
>> diagnostic output]
>


-- 
		-harry

Harry Halpin,  University of Edinburgh 
http://www.ibiblio.org/hhalpin 6B522426
Received on Tuesday, 17 April 2007 18:14:02 GMT

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